New EFUSS Skill: Salesmanship!

[djspectre]

I think that this would be a good addition to the EFUSS pack. It would of course be based off of persuade and charisma, but would be used specifically for merchants.

Just as Lore has been broken out into various skills in EFUSS, this skill might even be used (or could be used) by NPC's in addition to the appraise check, to perhaps get access to rarer goods or lower prices.

Though this skill would be primarily used by PC's to sell goods to other PC's.

Just an idea.

[Yalta]

I think this would be a nice addition. Not high on the priority list i suppose but would be a good way to represent this type of skill and character further than Appraise, which is essentially limited to understanding the value of something, not your ability to sell it to someone.

[Capricious]

Well, EFUSS already has Diplomacy, which works into Bluff and Persuade as I understand it. That makes it a form of salesmanship, really. All this does is add something under a more specific name. It just seems rather redundant to me.

[Porkolt]

Secondary Appraise

[SkillFocuspwn]

Well, Secondary Appraise is an okay suggestion but it's not like people are desperately clawing to get just one more point in it. Otherwise, the original suggestion looks to be covered already by Appraise itself.

[Drakill Tannan]

What for? I remember when i attempted to roll apprise checks vs PCs to get lower prices (even if just 5gp or 15gp for the flavour of it) and they would ignore me. And who buys from NPCs anyway? Potions are too expensive, spell-casting trinkets are a joke, they sell only munane armors wich you can find on quests anyway, or if you want a full plate you'll get a custom one anyway, and same goes with weapons. The miscelanous trinkets that tobar re-sells to PCs are too expensive to be worth it.

The only thing i think i've ever bought from an NPC constantly, were potion bottles.

[Coldburn]

I aprove, and agree with above post.

[Capricious]

I'm going to digress a bit here but...My understanding is PCs don't have to pay attention to social skill rolls. That's what the roleplay is for, to determine reaction, die rolls don't determine PC reactions. Skill rolls such as those are really reserved for use with NPCs and the like, and the only reason to use them with PCs (without DM supervision) would be to show that your character actually has the stats to back up what they're attempting. However, the opposing player is fully free to ignore said rolls and determine their character's reaction on their own.

[Egon the Monkey]

Similar thoughts came up when I suggested Entertainment as a skill for non-bards. EFUSS is a bonus skill system there to let us represent abilities of our PCs that aren't significant enough to want to spend our limited skillpoints on but represent some aptitude. Some EFUSS skills will have mechanical benefits in the scripted systems, some are just there to say "look I can do that".

[digression]
I don't tend to use social skills to influence other players with rolls as much as remind myself what my PC is able to do. Also rolls are great for stuff where you might want to potentially fail without major consequences. For example my bard rolling bluff for an outrageous tall tale to indicate "you might be able to tell this is fake", or rolling a perform check to juggle daggers and deciding if I botch the roll, I'll get one stuck in my foot.

Ultimately, "GIMME SWORD CHEAP" with a roll of 40 Appraise won't get you far. RPing clever criticisms of an item's quality, or convincing the seller it's common and you'll go buy it off another guy will likely work better. But without charisma, appraise, bluff or persuade, is it reasonable to do that? "GIMME SWORD CHEAP" *flexes 18 Str Half-Orc Muscles* (rolls 30 Intimidate) might work. On the other hand the seller might just refuse to do business with you and hire a guard :P. Personally, playing merchants, I've discounted stuff for people who've made good IC reasons why I should, especially if it fits the description of the item.
[/digression]

[djspectre]

The ageless argument about whether or not we should obey other PC's skill rolls is irrelevant here.

While, yes, you could pigeonhole Salesmanship into Appraise, someone else stated the fine line between Appraisal (knowledge of value) and being able to sell an item (intuition, observation of client and smooth talking).

I may know how much a cheeseburger costs, but does that make me qualified to create a marketing or ad campaign for it? No.

The way I envision Salesmanship would be a combination of intuition (wisdom-based understanding of a consumers needs), observation of a potential client market (can a hin really use a greataxe, or would metal item really be the best item to try to sell an ultra-druid?) and then actually creating a sales pitch to the person (persuade or CHA-based boost).

Its not the same as simply knowing that a blurring vial costs XXX to brew.  And thus the EFUSS is meant to flesh out your character in a more granular RP way.

I still think this skill has merit and should be added.

[Thomas_Not_very_wise]

EFUSS skill Sailing. Already have it DJ!

[12 Hatch]

I would suggest that Appraise is the knowledge aspect of mercantilism, while Salesmanship could be EFUSS'd totally separately as the more charismatic aspect of it (INT vs. CHA, respectively).

Too few classes get Appraise as a class skill for it to be comfortably relied upon for salesmanship purposes.

Perhaps Salesmanship could have some kind of slight added bonus like mitigating the cost of making sendings by a few gold.

[Thomas_Not_very_wise]

Ugh...

Appraise can be used for this. It isn't pigeonholing it, it is frankly making use what is already there. No real point in sub-dividing everything. Take Skill Focus Appraise if you're so bothered about lame arses selling things.

[Letsplayforfun]

Yeah, Thomas has it right. Next thing you'll know you'll want to subdivise EFSS into more detailed proficiency slots such as crafting weapons (swords, daggers, axes, arrows, etc...)

Not saying it's a bad idea, it's just real low priority.

Take appraise, secondary appraise, skill focus appraise, persuade, charisma... then we'll know you're able to sell used expensive goblin gear to greedy dwarves.

[Perugian_Flower]

I support this idea! Not that it benefits my build or anything.. :)