Drunken Haze

[Relinquish]

This is where your reasoning goes wrong.
 
You're not supposed to be taking the perk so that your character can take up drinking and have a benefit.
 
You're supposed to take the perk because it adds a slight benefit to the fact that your character drinks all the time.
 
 
In other words, this perk is not an incentive to drink, drinking is an incentive to take this perk.

OMG WHAT?!

[Barehander]

This is where your reasoning goes wrong.
 
You're not supposed to be taking the perk so that your character can take up drinking and have a benefit.
 
You're supposed to take the perk because it adds a slight benefit to the fact that your character drinks all the time.
 
 
In other words, this perk is not an incentive to drink, drinking is an incentive to take this perk.

All that is well and good, but it still doesn't change the fact that there's a big fat unfair inbalance there.

This kind of argumentation comes up all the time, but it just doesn't hold water. You can guilt-trip the "powergamer" for expecting some balance in what is after all an action game, but I'm sure every necromancer is just happy getting free corpses every reset and every skald enjoys the extra attacks his songs can grant.

The sole purpose is not to pwn mechanically. Yet the perks give mechanical benefits, some of them very useful. They're meant for RP, but an action game needs to be balanced nonetheless. Perks are no different from feats and classes: you're "supposed" to take them because your RP dictates so, but it's at the same time obvious that as part of an action game they also need to be somewhat balanced.

It's not fun or fair to suffer for not playing a fat guy, bard or necromancer, for example. Neither is it necessary to balance them perfectly so that everyone's on the same line. But it's perfectly reasonable to ask for a totally underwhelming perk to be reviewed without being guilt-tripped to hell as a powergamer. (I'm not talking only or primarily about you, Porkolt, but all the trolls in this topic.)

The primary purpose of the perks is to be fun and cool, after all. Judging by the topic, Drunken Haze is neither fun nor cool.

I don't see why cheap alcohols couldn't work as Cure Minor Wounds and some more expensive ones as Cure Light Wounds, for example. So it's a slightly cheaper way to get unimpressive potions that you probably can't carry a lot of in your inventory anyway. Hardly game-breaking.

[derfo]

really if it's so hardly game-breaking, what's wrong with it just staying how it is? drinking heals somewhat as a cool thing for drunks. done

[Porkolt]

All that is well and good, but it still doesn't change the fact that there's a big fat unfair inbalance there.
 
This kind of argumentation comes up all the time, but it just doesn't hold water. You can guilt-trip the "powergamer" for expecting some balance in what is after all an action game, but I'm sure every necromancer is just happy getting free corpses every reset and every skald enjoys the extra attacks his songs can grant.
 
The sole purpose is not to pwn mechanically. Yet the perks give mechanical benefits, some of them very useful. They're meant for RP, but an action game needs to be balanced nonetheless. Perks are no different from feats and classes: you're "supposed" to take them because your RP dictates so, but it's at the same time obvious that as part of an action game they also need to be somewhat balanced.
 
It's not fun or fair to suffer for not playing a fat guy, bard or necromancer, for example. Neither is it necessary to balance them perfectly so that everyone's on the same line. But it's perfectly reasonable to ask for a totally underwhelming perk to be reviewed without being guilt-tripped to hell as a powergamer. (I'm not talking only or primarily about you, Porkolt, but all the trolls in this topic.)
 
The primary purpose of the perks is to be fun and cool, after all. Judging by the topic, Drunken Haze is neither fun nor cool.
 
I don't see why cheap alcohols couldn't work as Cure Minor Wounds and some more expensive ones as Cure Light Wounds, for example. So it's a slightly cheaper way to get unimpressive potions that you probably can't carry a lot of in your inventory anyway. Hardly game-breaking.

So pick a different perk.

[Howlando]

Would it be cool to possibly enhance this perk slightly? Yes

Is it worth the time to do so? Almost certainly not

Are some perks better than others? Yes. Part of the issue may be that we've bundled in some class improvements (such as neat control of elements for casters and additional bard songs) in with a system that is just intended to help bring flavor not much additional power in the same system. But our intentions very much are just to add some fun little things, akin to taking EFUSS skills in astronomy or something. I know for me it's fun to see PCs take feats like Silver Hand or Thug, the perks are supposed to be something similar.

Are some feats/skills better than others? Yes

Really, though, the Drunken Haze perk is not suppose to be some complicated addition to enhance "drunken boxing" style combat or whatever but just something fun to take if you want to RP a drunkard. Sheesh.

[Drakill Tannan]

The thing is, the perk is not only useless mechanically, but also RPwise. Drinking with drunken haze does nothing to the PC, nothing that -other- players can see, anyway, therefore, what's the point of even taking the perk, RPwise? I can just use the "drink" emote action and type *is drunk* and it's about the same.

If there were mechanical benefits, the change would be notable as well, because the PC would consitenly drink, seek good liquors, etc.

Without either, there is no point in taking the perk. Instead, i could have chosen to make another aspect of my character more visible, say, bloody mess because he's a brute, catnap because he's lazy, pathfinder... well, you get the idea. Taking Drunken Haze did absolutely -nothing- for my PCs abilities/Roleplay but taking the chance of another perk. And that, sir, is sad.

At least i wish i could re-take my perk, and ignore the durnken haze one ever existed. But as i understand it, once you take the perk, it is forever, and not even DMs can take it away.

[Thomas_Not_very_wise]

...

WHO REMEMBERS QUINN THE DRUNKEN MONK

[Egon the Monkey]

TNVW just won this thread. Yes. This would have suited Quin perfectly.

[Drakill Tannan]

only if it did anything at all.

[FleetingHeart]

It's a quirky perk. Not all of them have to be utterly on par with one another. Not all of them are meant to be. Just like all weapons and all feats are not created equally.

[Pup]

I think I might vomit...

[Lulzebub]

I wonder if there are people who don't play wizards because their spells aren't all perfectly balanced against one another.

[Drakill Tannan]

I think i'm not making myself clear. I don't want balance, i want that characters with drunken haze perk are notably diferent from other characters.

[Thomas_Not_very_wise]

You'll be notably different by being a drunken idiot.

[derfo]

So, supposedly if it heals like fifteen points instead of five or whatever amount, it becomes super noticeable? Does that really make those already inclined to drink seem cooler at all, or does it just promote people to abuse this perk for a mechanical benefit?

Just look at the obesity epidemic that surrounded the fat perk when it was initially implemented. People were being fat to get the perk, not vice versa.