Sexing up Weaponmasters

[scrappayeti]

Not that the new build isnt good, but how much cooler would it be if you had Improved Whirlwind Attack?

Its just like the vanilla variety except 10 feet range rather than 5. It might come in at level 3 or there abouts?

[Egon the Monkey]

I think that Weaponmaster's fine on what you get, just harsh on the requirements. The BAB was lowered but you still need 6 levels of Fighter to take it and all but one of your feats have to be the required ones (assuming Human bonus feat). I think it would be much better if it could be taken with fewer feats, to allow for more varied and non-human weaponmasters.

[Semli]

I'd be for this for the reasons mentioned. Some weapon styles/dual weilding variety would be sweet.

[athousandyearsofpain]

You actually only need five fighterlevels to take weaponmaster as it is right now, if I am not mistaken.
However, the bonuses they get are quite solid.
Perhaps making them get Blind Fight for free might be a good idea though.

[SkillFocuspwn]

I agree with Egon, at this sort of level the feat list is far too restrictive imo. You can go 4 fighter / 2 x as long as you're a human, but it limits the list of possible builds annoyingly (exotic only for humans, no free feats for any other race). Making it end two lines of "weapon specialist" feats like imp. disarm, spring attack, great cleave, or even just having the DMs accept that the PC's build, goals and focus defines them as a Weapon Master.

It's a crazy sweet PrC but it's always bugged me how difficult and specific it is to get on EfU.

[Paha]

You have to also remember, it's difficult for a reason. It's not Rather good weapon user, it's weapon master. Masters aren't popping in and out on every corner.

[Equinox]

It not the earning it thats the issue here. Really that you need all these feats. Especially as whirlwind attack is somewhat bugged.

I'd like to see it possible for a weaponmaster halfling dual wielding whips.

[Egon the Monkey]

You actually only need five fighterlevels to take weaponmaster as it is right now, if I am not mistaken.

True. But to do that you have to be a pure Fighter who doesn't take anything but the WM feats (even Weapon Spec) unless they're human. Since it's an app class, what about lowering the feat requirements to Expertise, WF, Dodge but demand that the character's remaining feats have to be taken from those on the Fighter Bonus Feat list, and must be applicable to the chosen weapon? That would make it clear Weapon Masters have to be built to use a weapon, not have saves, or sneak, etc. Still restricts them to a minimum of 13 INT and DEX, but allow multiclasses, non humans, and dual wielders (without having to make some strange Ranger build).

That way, the difficulty in getting it would be the in game challenge, and having a solid concept. Right now, you're restricted in "Can I fit my concept into this  inflexible build?" For example I'd love to play a Halfling Knifemaster with a pair of daggers, but then I'd have to bite the multiclass penalty and be a Ranger/Fighter, or not get Weaponmaster until about L9. I also couldn't multiclass to a class with tumble in order to avoid resorting to plate armor. Similarly it would be hard to play a Dwarf Weaponmaster wanting to use the Dwarven Waraxe unless you skipped on Weapon Spec.

[9lives]

Oh god I couldn't skip on weapon spec

[Egon the Monkey]

It doesn't make much sense not to take it when your character is supposed to be specialising exclusively in one form of weapon to become a Weaponmaster. I thought it was a good illustration of how much you are restricted in a Weaponmaster's build and thus character concepts when for a lot of concepts you'd have to be a Fighter without the Fighter's one special feat. I could easily have said "elf, rapier, finesse" instead of "dwarf, axe, exotic". All the WMs I've known of on EfU have been Human and had the extra feat, or Nightriser and had the accompanying badass stats.

[Pup]

Oh god I couldn't skip on weapon spec

King Troll of Trolltown.  <3 9lives.

[derfo]

it's called weapon MASTER not weapon guy with some preference and heightened proficency

to avoid derailment op's suggestion sounds fine but unnecessary

[Barehander]

Getting stuck on a prestige class name is just silly.

Either way, variety is never bad. If build mechanics pidgeon-hole PCs into a single concept, then those mechanics are poor. All the ideological nonsense on whether they should train and behave like someone thinks they should is irrelevant, because the PrC prerequistives are a different matter altogether. If I had my way, we'd be freeform and didn't have rules, but alas. We'll just have to go for as great diversity as possible.

[derfo]

they are strict requirements but not impossible to work around. adapt to that instead of needing to ask for it to change

[Barehander]

Why should you adapt to something that is not ideal, when it could be instead made ideal? That's a conservative and defeatist attitude. You should instead ask yourself, "If I were starting from a clean slate with no preexisting standards, would I still introduce these reductions?" (There's of course the question whether it's worth dev time investment, but I guess that's their call to make.)

I think it's generally a poor idea on such a low level server to go for Steep Requirements, Lots of Power. Instead go for Loose Requirements, Less Power. WM doesn't need more power, and certainly not just because it has steep requirements. That boosts the few marginal builds that can take it even further, while it does nothing for diversity.

If the intention is to encourage diversity (which should really be a no-brainer in server design), then there's clearly cause for improvement. I have never played a WM on EfU and have no intention of doing so anytime soon, so I can't comment on the power/balance aspect. But the diversity aspect is obvious to anyone, and it should take priority.