Monster PCs, PvP and FD. Confessions of a Noob.

[Ranek]

Alright guys. Something happened some hours ago, that made me upset, for many reasons, but mainly for how I reacted to some situation that I'm not used to. First of all I wish to apologise to the players of the PCs that died in this 'event', and say I wish I could have chilled out and think of something to do other than just kill them monsters, also that I wish there is some way to reverse it, I would be okay with rping that they managed to escape bleeding and survived, something like this.
 
I wish to hear opinions of more experienced players on how to react to something like this, for I really think I acted bad.
 
Okay. My character and some others were questing. We leave the quest area, share the loot and all, and suddenly surprised by a Werewolf (Pc) and some Lizard Folk (Pc too). Our group stopped still did not know what to do when they, with no word, charged us. The Werewolf ran away and the Lizard stayed. Was beaten down. Then the Werewolf comes back and keep attacking us. We go after it and take it down. End of story, all two mosnters FDed, as we were staying completely IC, as slaying monsters seem to be the right thing to do for most characters. But then some guilt hit me, I started thinking all what the player had to go through to get some application passed and involving other characters, bringing fun to the server, etc (Although I find attacking adventurers in sight with no word a strange way to involve others), and OOC courtesy, etc.
 
After all happened, I also learned they were level four, plus the Cr, would be something around 6-7, but were only two, against  a group of about 5 with levels ranging from 5-7. So, that was not considered 'fair', even being them who took the fight to us. (By the way, should one ask the level of the other before starting PvP?)
 
So, the questions are:
 
 - What kinds of IC excuses a character should make up not to FD a mosnter PC? Even if truly ICly he would chop its head off and take home as a trophy?
 
 - What would your character, reader, do with a subdued monster PC, other than kill it or take to show others your deed (which would get them killed too)?
 
 I just want some hints, because in extreme situations such as these, my primary instincts are not to break rules (which I did not do) and keep ICly as much as possible (also done), but even with these two checked, something did not feel right...

[Kotenku]

It's nice to be considerate, but I'd say there was absolutely nothing wrong with what happened, from your account of it. Players make monster PCs, knowing full well that nobody needs an excuse to kill them, and people may, (and should) attempt to kill them frequently, and with great prejudice.

But you're not asking if what you did was Okay, just what you could have done, I guess? Well, if you won't accept that you have no reason to feel guilty, then here are my thoughts:

Excuses for not killing a monster that attacked you obviously depend on the character you're playing. Maybe you want to play with the monster. Take all its equipment, give it a knife, and two healing potions, and send it into the wilderness with a head start, and then hunt it.

Find out if it has a tribe, or clan, and see if you can ransom it back to them in exchange for power, wealth, or aid in your own goals.

Capture it, make it a slave, and force it to fight in tournaments.

If I were in the unlikely position of winning, or even surviving that sort of attack, and I weren't interested in FD, I think I'd put one of the monster's eyes out, to "tag" it, as it were.
A werewolf in human form with a recently lost eye is easily identified, and someday, when the werewolf is a terror to the Colony, you get to say "Aye, I took the bastard's eye when it was wee, but the cunning beast would have had my throat if I didn't stop there. It got away that day, t'my great shame, but I'll be damned if I let that mongrel cause any more trouble. It's time to finish what I started!"

Just a thought, anyway.

[Dash]

Ok, I am wrong. :/ Sorry Ranek

[Caddies]

Firstly, please ignore Dash's completely unfounded post.

If you and your group were attacked wordlessly by two monster PCs you are absolutely within your right to FD them right there on the spot if you defeat them. In fact, if you didn't, it would be rather strange.

In this case, the onus was completely on the attackers. Rather than attempt to RP with you first, they chose the PvP route, failed, and then died for it. There is an unwritten clause when applying for monster PCs that you expect and can live with this harsh reality.

If you attack people you definitely do not get an 'out' (doubly so as a monster PC), the out should be given by the attacker.

I hope I have cleared this up! Do not feel bad Ranek, what you did was fine.

[Ranek]

No, I'm not asking if it's okay what I did or not, even thinking now that it was not, but I want some hints on how to act on something like this in the future. I wish to apologize again and wish had done differently, to be honest, Kotenku's suggestions were great, and I wish I have had some similar insights in the moment. I was somewhat nervous with the whole situation, mainly due my own experience in the server, of losing all PvPs I happen to engage (willingly or not), so I now tend to do my best not to lose again, and try not to get frustrated again. I also, at that moment, could not imagine that if the situation was reversed, my character would be spared, mainly because thinking ICly could not see a werewolf and a lizard folk doing anything else than just eat their preys. (as they should). The part of having no RP, I agree, and tell you for ceartain that the whole thing was not fun for either side. What I take from this whole thing is what I'm learning of its outcome, and wish similar things not to happen again, with anyone in the server, being them the attackers or the defenders.

[derfo]

FD is lame unless the player wants the victim character to be ended in such a fashion. I think even if you are FDing someone then you should take a moment to consider the fact you are ending their dude. As always leaving someone alive you did not need to kill and taking mercy on them in a cool way, like not taking all their stuff or cutting off their arms, or even leaving them shit you don't want out of pity. That will always earn you style points as word gets around. Of course, monsters are monsters and should be treated like monsters I guess.

[AceOfSpadesX]

I was a part of this ordeal. I was basically going post what Caddies said, but I can't really put it much better than that. Basically, if you are going to act like a monster NPC  and charge without any RP (obviously expecting to win) then you cannot be surprised when you are FDed without any RP. My PC saw the werewolf first, and to be honest, when you guys charged, I didn't realize you were PCs until I scrolled my mouse over you. Can't expect to receive a courtesy that you didn't give yourself.

[Beatofficer]

Lizard was only level 3 btw :???: I think it's a difficult issue to address all in all, because if it was an NPC were- and lizard, of course you would just FD it off the bat, but you also can't subdue NPCs. We wanted to try and do something fun for everyone, and it didn't pan out. Would have been nice for you guys to at least do a little RP before you FD'd us though. It happened so fast I barely got a word out. Also, Dash did yell out before he charged in though. But hey, shit happens, so it goes. Just gotta keep movin.

[Drakill Tannan]

My two cents:

Well, when playing a monster PC, as caddies said, you are a monster. There is no reason why not to FD inmedietly, and it would be the correct roleplay for most characters. I played as an orc, and knew i was going to be killed as soon as a PC had the chance, and i was cool with it, luckly i was made a slave, and Rual still is there waiting for his chance to shine. As a riser, if i were to be found and killed at level 2 by the palid mask exploring the enclave, if merely facepalm and go on, because i expect that will happen.

If you play a monster PC, expect the lamest of deaths posible. You do not kill, rather subdue and roleplay, but the others kill you on sight, don't care, and you have to be cool with it.

On the other hand, i always try OOCly not to kill PCs. Monstrous or not. There are thousands of excuses, but to find one that suits a character, is hard. "Convert to talos or die" or "serve us and live" are terrible ones dash, sorry, but you don't do that to a werewolf and a troglodyte.

If Ix was there, he would have abogated and let you live, but that suits him because he is a pacifist tree hugger and everyone-lover. Muultuxy is not. The only way i can think you would have lived and it would have made sence, is if the shaman would have captured to sacrifice you and you managed to escape. But then, that is option of the non-monster PCs, only if they come up with it, only if it suits their characters and only if they feel like it they will do it.

The morale? When playing a monster PC expect this to happen. When playing against a monster PC try to be imaginative, and if you can't, don't feel bad for doing what everyone know would happen.

Ranek you did fine. Don't worry. Dash, that's what happens to monster PCs. Nothign wrong here.


Ranek:
As for the advise, if your character will kill the monsters if he wins, give them chances to defeat you. For example, capturing them and allowing some chances for them to escape. If you can't come up with something ask them. Before killing a PC i always send them a tell with "Are you ok with being permaned? if not, gimme an excuse not to, 'cause i can't think of one" (at least since the first time where i cheated and got grounded) And people about to die are imaginative. If nothing comes up kill them though, if it makes IC sence. Sometimes you SHOULD kill the PCs, remeber Dram? he got killed for not killing the PC when he should have.

Knowing Muultuxy, and how you've RPed him, and with caothic evil naxx there too, clearly that was the right way to RP it out.

However...

try to make the death fun for the monster PCs. Emote stuff. Give a monologue. Let him give his last words. etc. That will make death a nice experience.

It wasn't fun dieying with dram when i wasn't offered the chance to give my last words, nor was given an explanation larger than 2 lines of why he died. However, assuming Rual had been killed at the bridge, even that would ahve been fun, after all that happened since his capture.

My cetns merely.

[ScottyB]

Just a reminder:

PvP Guidelines[/url]"]- It is legitimate to FD kill a subrace character (such as goblins, kobolds, tieflings, drow, duergar, aasimar, etc.) at any level [SIZE="3"]just for being what they are[/SIZE], if that is in-character for your PC, and you follow the other PvP rules (such as possession, hostile, etc.)

While it's always nice to give some OOC consideration and make things play out longer, monsters are an unique case. They are monsters - that risk should be understood before a player apps for such a character, and by everyone they meet.

[Ranek]

(last post was done before Caddies response)
 
Well Caddies, it was good to hear something not terrible about what I've done, and yeah, I agree that it was, within the situation 'okay'. What I feel sorry for, is no further history or plot come out of that.
 
And Dash, about the character I play, I know better how to RP it. He is indeed a tribal who worship Talos, but he does not live by Talos' dogma, in fact, he mostly fears talos than anything else, very supersticious, would never make friends with someone he considers 'cursed'. Well, further than that is spoils of my character, which I know you're not interested. At any rate, I think all my points are stated, but still welcome more hints or opinions

[Semli]

PC monsters typically have few redeemable qualities, particularly if you aren't interested in teaming up with them in their murderous escapades. The only logical solution is to destroy them whenever you have the opportunity and claim their supplies as your own.

[Paha]

I gotta agree as well, that in this case you have to think of consequences and unfortunately carry the result as a monster.

I would surely be intriqued and for letting these kind monsters to live, should they suddenly appear and play out intelligent forms of beings, demanding and claiming territory or something of that line.

However, if these beasts (no matter what level, if the beasts start it, you've accepted that you're low level. You could have turned away any time) attack without much of a words, it's already too much of going OOC to just subdue and leave the beasts alive. I mean, you gotta be pretty light minded character to let it go.

Courtesy is a beautiful thing, but I don't think that low level or unfortunate odds, especially when one chooses it themselves, is an excuse either to survive from taking a sudden dire risk.

[TheImpossibleDream]

The only thing I can chip into this discussion is this. When you encounter a monster player attacking you in the wilds. There really is little need to feel ooc'ly threatened, most of the time I'd say even 9/10 you will walk away from it.

A true monster should attack adventurers MOST of the time. Dialog is nice but not in excess. Please do not consider it "odd" when a monster attacks you "without a word" as its generally what makes the most sense for them. Personally I dislike 'humans' who look like monsters, have the stats of monsters, but get along fine with everyone!

You did nothing wrong Ranek as many have said before me!

[Letsplayforfun]

Monsters attack you. You kill them. End of story. You can 'leave them for dead' maybe, but you really don't have to. We make monster PCs to have a hard time.