Daz's amazing lootfest extravaganza

[Caster13]

I'm a big fan of short and quick NPC possessions, things that add to the atmosphere of the setting.
 
Also, I want to see more fantasy related phenomenons. Ghosts, fairies, mysterious, magical forces, and such, on a small scale.

[Letsplayforfun]

The server is already really nice, so my two cents are more like "what could be done more":

1. Quick Npc possession, for the atmosphere. It can be guards chatting, a dog barking, whatever.

2. make more use of social skills, especially for low lvl quests, so that some people can reach lvl5 without having to bash stuff.

3. make a travelling zone (cf. thread) so as to encourage travelling. We need places like Mur, Kuota Isles, Pyrimo, Thomas's Shop, Curio shop, etc. Not to copy-paste those, obviously, but safe havens with a curious atmosphere.

4. bring back the sense of OMG we are surrounded by hostiles, and even if we hate each other, sometimes we must get along. Nightrisers, HBala....: they are there, but just avoided. There hasn't been a major threat since Red Eleint. Even the civil war could just be avoided by not taking sides.

5. Similarly, cut the ties with Old Port or any hope of foreign help or incoming. It always has me wonder why people stay on Ymph. Have people try to get off, be sunk by the myst or whatever. Make us feel alone, lost, and surrounded, not just a town where local lords fight each other for power and where we know badass NPCs will save our town from dire stuff.

5. Make more items class only or alignement only, so as to limit a little loot bloat, and to make spellcasting more worth it.

6. Concerning Gobsquat, i like the place, even if it competes a little with docks, it doesn't serve the same purpose. It's a squat, a refuge for the outcasts, not a growing settlement. BTW, sorry if i can't liven it up as much as i want with Kluckoo, but without questing i can't offer rewards for any events i've in store ;) I've gone broke just sending messagers here and there... Anyways, that PC aside, it's a great place, maybe too close to town. It might be a good idea to push the gobs deeper down, to have a "safe haven" on the way down inside the Zig.

7. I'd like to see much more of the myst. It's one of the coolest features of Ymph, imo, and i've only been involved once in something about it.

8. Name more DMs. ;)

9. Make more links with UD. Vault whipe everyone's PC in UD, and allow easier travel in those great underground areas

10. Make subdual mode more damageable to the people subdued. It's not taken seriously enough imo. XP loss, Lvl loss, CON loss, or something like that.

11. Summons: make a regeant/book? that can alter you default summon, not only at character creation for specialists.

12. Tune done preference about what is "expected": let people enjoy the game the way they like it, without having them fear DMs will never look at their PCs, or that they are under-par players. i'm getting weird tells these days about "omg i'm a poor player, how can i get dms to notice me". Like i'm the one to ask...

13. Let people enter DM factions without being too demanding about "what goals they'll achieve in the faction". Even DM factions have "followers" and not just leaders. Man, i want to be a guard just to be a guard. Do i have to have an interesting plot/ goal to do so? I understand you dont want people just "leeching", but DMs factions are missing people.

14. Reduce spawn points to force people to meet more often. Too many spawn points scatter the player base.

15. In this regard, the opposition between Docks and Zig is so high that we basically have 2 settlements, with people afraid of going into the other. That's not cool at my playing times when players are already few.

That's all on the fly.

[RIPnogarD]

12. Tune done preference about what is "expected": let people enjoy the game the way they like it, without having them fear DMs will never look at their PCs, or that they are under-par players. i'm getting weird tells these days about "omg i'm a poor player, how can i get dms to notice me". Like i'm the one to ask...

13. Let people enter DM factions without being too demanding about "what goals they'll achieve in the faction". Even DM factions have "followers" and not just leaders. Man, i want to be a guard just to be a guard. Do i have to have an interesting plot/ goal to do so? I understand you dont want people just "leeching", but DMs factions are missing people...

These two ideas...
[SIZE="4"]Seconded!!![/SIZE]

[Letsplayforfun]

Stop worrying about people who loiter, be it in front of Kings, at zig top, or whatever.

People loiter because.... ta da: they are waiting.

Some are afk, some are in tell land, some are waiting for others, some have no faction and are waiting for  "someone" to talk to, some are waiting for a job, some are ajusting their inventory, some are ... whatever. It's part of multiplayer computer games.

NPCs stand about idle, don't fuss about PCs doing the same.

[Caddies]

Not only do players and DMs need to do their parts, but the gameworld needs to be crafted in such a way as to incentivise proactivity.

EFU:A is crafted for proactivity -more- than EFU, actually. Fond retrospection aside, let's look at the facts. You cite the Council as the main example...the Council was generally 10 PCs every few months attempting to get on a Council of 5, which really didn't have that much power due to inevitable infighting. In EFU:A, we have a variety of things, most notably guild houses. In the Duchy, an enterprising religious leader or mercenary captain or merchant lord (etc) can rent out a guildhouse, attract followers, gain a reputation and be invited to the Council of Lords and Ladies that serves Trenada and thus exercise real influence over the setting. In the Docks, its much the same. A cunning criminal mastermind or evil cultist or compassionate charity worker (etc) will be able to rent out a guildhouse from the Sons and use those sweet areas with their free resting, secure meeting rooms and persistent storage to acquire power and prestige. Once someone does this in the Docks, the local NPC power will invite them into their inner fold. There they will receive equipment, more influence, authority in the Docks and a wage. Or they could decline, and several other IC avenues may be explored or opened up. In general its more exciting and interactive than the Council, by a long shot.

And that's just the guildhouses part. Various other paths to influence and power over the setting exist and I'm quite certain you could see them if you looked hard enough!

At the moment, it seems very faction/plot/NPC driven.

A few months ago, everyone was complaining there weren't any plots and our factions sucked. Now we undertake what was a pretty massive project and its the wrong thing to do. :(

And also lacks a sense of centrality, given that the Governance of the Colony has changed about many times (far more profoundly than the Sanctuary elections) since the beginning, and seems to have been (until recently) ultimately driven by a completely separate setting (Old Port) and small numbers of PCs (small when compared to the entire server participating in elections).

Wouldn't a lack of strong centrality be a better environment for player pro-activity? And if we turn back time, and be realistic, the council elections were sort of seen as a routine bore by many players and in fact if we look at numbers in elections, only a small portion of the playerbase even voted or got involved in any way beyond a few passing comments. <_<

The whole thing exudes an elitism that I think correlates with the points scrappayeti is making in the quoted section and my points above. So... in summary: both the setting and the server dynamic seem oppressive to autonomous, creative proactivity amongst players.

Not really. I mean, if you think EFU:A is oppressive to player pro-activity or creativity then I'm not really sure you're as acquainted with the server as you should be. Most of the other posts in this thread assert the opposite, saying we don't cater enough to PCs/players who aren't creative and proactive. Again, we just can't win. :???:

[Equinox]

A few months ago, everyone was complaining there weren't any plots and our factions sucked. Now we undertake what was a pretty massive project and its the wrong thing to do. :(

Screw the haters. The plots are good and the Factions are utterly amazing, anyone who can't see that probably isnt directly involved with the factions themselves and therefore hasn't got a clue what they are saying.

Having been in both the Stygians and Now the Son's I can definately say that both faction are excellent, and they are most definately the -right- thing to do.

[Drakill Tannan]

Screw the haters. The plots are good and the Factions are utterly amazing, anyone who can't see that probably isnt directly involved with the factions themselves and therefore hasn't got a clue what they are saying.

Having been in both the Stygians and Now the Son's I can definately say that both faction are excellent, and they are most definately the -right- thing to do.

I agree. Mind you, it is in no way necesary to belong to a DM faction to be awsome, or make the server notice you. Umbaktu & the blood legion are good examples. The best one i can think of though, are the thayans.

Speaking of the thayans, where the hell are they? did they just vanish?

Caddies, i think it was very cool to make the stygians more prominent, and i love the addition of the sons and the conclave. (although i still think it would have been better if the Thayan PC faction had been made into a DM faction IMO)

[ScruffyMcSmirkalot]

I suppose I'll throw in another three cents... so it can be a proper nickel worth of commentary. I haven't read everything in the post, so do forgive me if I repeat any views or words that others have already said.
 
*Red Italics in quotes for convenience...
 

On the topic of character longevity, everyone has their own style and personal tastes.
 
Personally, I enjoy playing and DMing for high impact characters that make the IG atmosphere tense and exciting before dying whilst attempting one of their brazen goals or fighting one of their many PC enemies.
 
In the end though, you can make your character last as long as you want. There are always ways to survive any conflict. If you prefer a character that lasts for months and even years, then you're welcome to play one! But by no means does it mean others enjoy such, so you shouldn't really expect or ask for it.

I apologize if I gave off the wrong impression, Caddies. As far as Play Style goes... I'm not one who believes akin to a modernist in that there's only one way to play (Though D&D itself is rather modernist in its values, but either way...), but I'm more of a post-modernist when it comes to "Play Style", as it's often "different strokes for different folks". Posing them as polar opposites, both the "Quick Blazing" Conflict and "Slowly Smouldering" Conflict styles have their individual merits. I was just simply expressing my preferred play style, or that I've found so far in my experiences, and seeing if I was really a minority in preferring this.
 
However, having heard some of the others, it makes me wonder... does the current "environment" favor a certain Conflict Style more than the other? I'm not accusing the environment of such, and DMs will DM what they want to DM, as they should as unpaid staff of this server. I'm merely raising the question. It seems that there's "many" (I'll use that loosely) that believe that for some reason that the "Quick Blazing" Conflict style is a dominant, althought that belief could be easily facilitated by the greater... transparency?... that's laid out when such Quick Blazing Conflict styles seem to lead to their final climax every two months. Also, if such Conflict Style is actually favored by the environment, then it might lead many to choose that Conflict Style over the other as they have no preference between the two, and merely wish to "succeed" in the environment.
 
As Daz didn't really specify that it had to be something that the DMs could accomplish alone, and merely what we felt the server may have been lacking or exceling in, I'd like to promote dialogue about this further.
 
Onto another thing, that I actually left out of the list, and didn't bother to add it in later, though it's also a question...
 
Nostalgia, and world shaping... the former being something I evidently have a great love for, as seen by my previous post, and the latter that I wish to expand upon... and combine the two.
 
In EFU:A (not talking about EFU), in what cases have the actions of Player Characters shaped the world, in a small or big way, that either is a change that stands despite all the violent change that occurs upon Ymph, or leaves behind even a simple landmark pointing to Player Characters and Player Factions of the past?
 
As I haven't been around long enough, I can't say that I really know many, so I posed it as a question first. I know I've seen markings of Red Elient upon the walls... Then there's the statue of the previous... Governer?... Just outside the Market Area... The sign in the Workshop Guild left by the Cleric of Gond... "Frog Roolz" marked upon a tree in the forest... The Proversion Merchant House, though that was burnt down...
 
I know the last three are left by players, and but I don't know enough about the first two to say if they were markings of a player faction or not.
 
I'd simply like to say that I like these little "landmarks". Reading "Frog Roolz" allows Nostalgia to overcome me, and a smile quirks on my face... and when someone asks who Frog is, Walther tells them of the great Stargazer Warrior who while sometimes was at odds with him, he held respect for and liked very much, as he defended his people... and as a character, was truely unique.
 
I'd request that, if possible, DMs might not only immortalize the previous NPCs, but also Player Characters when appropriate, more often than not, with even the smallest things that we simply pass by in the Game World, and then as veterns we remember the characters of the past once more, and as new players we question who these bygone characters were.
 
I'm a big fan of players and factions having a lasting impact (Whether it be a standing organization, a law, a crater, a building, a sign, graffiti, etc), and much like the Netherese leave both ruins and standing relics behind, it's great when players do this too.
 
Think that about sums it up. I hope my.... quandries... were helpful for facilitating more discussion, or were helpful in some way.

[Caddies]

On the topic of nostalgia, I think we do a fairly decent job of enshrining past characters of note within the module. There are several statues to prominent PCs, a monolith to certain characters, various small references hidden around (such as the 'Frog Roolz' etching in the tree) and references within NPC dialogue, both toolsetted and in DM-possessed NPC speech. To be realistic though, such coverage isn't going to be uniform in any way and more often than not must be earned with either a unique concept and/or successes IG. Even then, its sort of random in that it depends if a DM with the module out remembers to add it after he fixes bugs/finishes scripts/builds areas etc.

I'll try and make a point of sweeping through the module every month or two from now on and making sure standout PCs leave their 'mark' somewhere fitting.

[Portal Rat]

Well, all my gripes aside, this is still the best damn gaming experience anywhere on the internet.

[derfo]

I like when it seems like people actually care, players and DMs alike

[Dagam]

I'd like it if it took less time to get into EFU:A. Granted the last time I played was like a year ago and according to EFUSL that was for eight hours in one sitting, mostly on one of Howland's DM quests, so things may well be different now. While it was fun at the time I felt I had wrung only two hours worth of fun from it not eight hours, and it was limited by the low level of my character and not ICly knowing anyone. If I put in maybe ten-fifteen more hours I could scratch the surface of what's going on and what else there is to do, but thinking about what else I could do with my time, I could start and finish a book, watch an entire season of a TV show, get really good at an FPS, play and get bored of most single-player games, build a relationship, etc. I also spent a lot of time on the old EFU, my last character in particular was swimming in plots, had a ton of DM attention, was meeting people/going places, etc. but when he had to end I came to the conclusion that this was it--this was the best EFU had to offer, and I could not shake the impression it didn't give back as much as I put in. I'm not looking for instant gratification but I do think you should compare this to other games out there. So much time is spent walking somewhere, waiting for someone to type out a response, waiting for someone to do something, waiting for someone to make it for a quest, waiting in general, that I feel if I want a good story I could just read a book (or play DA:O). Or if I want a challenge involving other people I could play an FPS or RTS.

So yeah, make EFU take less time to get into and you might find a direct benefit being that people have more fun because there is more stuff going on/server events seem more accessible and/or important/feel like their actions are affecting the world/players are more willing to talk to each other and toss out plot hooks/less boring stuff. An indirect benefit could be you attract more casual people and well-socialized people who keep their lives in balance with the game, and less of the "crazies" who have decided to stick around for whatever reason, thus causing less burn-out and more fun in that regard.

[Drakill Tannan]

One of the great flaws of NWN PWs, one i noted when i played in the island of thain too, is that you need like 3 free hours to make sure you will enjoy the session, mind you, sometimes it isn't enough. You need to wait for people to log in, and the right people, at that. Be it at quests, you need the rigt classes (can't be all wizards and rogues), of the right levels that can enter the quest, and that haven't done it before. Other tasks are less demaning, but in general, all take some time to set up.

That is why i like "minigames" so much, they give you something to do while things get started.

I'd like people to consider ways of reducing this times.

Extend the quests level range, allow some quests to be done by 2 people, a remote way of adding somone outside the SQA while inside the SQA so they may join you in the middle of the quests.

Make ways for PCs to travel and get to the meeting palces faster. Give people something to do while they wait that is near the meeting place or HUB. Minigames, but not "solo" minigames, but rather soething 2 people can do while they wait for the thrid, maybe an area where friendly NPCs constantly fight MNPCs and players can join, at any time, knowing what to expect so they don't have to go ultra carefull and prepared... etc.

[Howlando]

Ideas for how to make EFU less require less time are welcome.

[johanmaxon]

I like LETSPLAYFORFUNs' idea about cutting off the connection with oldport! That I loved in the UD, being alone in the dark... 'Oh, a little dwarf, all alone in the Underdark' <-- Scariest tell, ever.