Ways to Make Pure Bards more Popular

[Gippy]

Casting in light / medium armor is also a good suggestion but... Have any of you /played/ high level bards? I have and I can say they are rocking flankers / support. I have played a number of them and can say that I had no problems getting to a decent level or acting like a total badass. I have in the past felt constrained by skill points. I hate perform with a passion.

[Thomas_Not_very_wise]

<.< Bards can kick a Frontline as well. Do not underestimate gnome/Halfling bards. THEY CAN DESTROY ALL IN THEIR PATH

[Egon the Monkey]

I have actually. Egon Rosenqvist was L8, Mister Banks was L9 and Toinus Lutgenk was L9. They were all multiclasses though, Egon with 1 Cleric of Lurue level, Banks with 3 Rogue levels and Toinus with 4 Rogue.  I've played PCs who were mid-level bards at least and definitely made them useful. But, as you can see the running theme with me has been "take classes that give you more skill points or abilities as bards are spread quite thin in either skillpoints or stats". As for Thomas's halfling bard point, it's a good one, but wasn't Joric a Bard/Rogue and Drago loaded out with Heavy Armor and Martial Wep feats (or was that a ftr level)?

Bards don't  suck, and I'm not saying that. They do though feel constrained and missing stuff in a lot of ways in NWN. They get an awesome collection of class skills, but too few skill points to use them well. They get up to medium armor and shields, but using either screws up their arcane spellcasting. They get a decent spell list but too few spells/day to keep anything but hr/level spells going throughout an EFU length quest. They wreck "no potions" spars but the availablity of unrestricted magic gear over scrolls and wands makes a pure bard less use in a straight fight (Although fair's fair, Dispel as a L1 spell on demand softens that blow a lot).

They are brilliant for responding to sudden attacks with the right spells for the moment, RPing and giving moderate buffs to massive groups. Armor and shields make them more resilient than rogues too. They just seem like they can't do half the stuff they should be able to to do given their feats. I really like playing bards, so I thought I'd just get all the constructive criticism and ideas I've come up with while playing with them down in one thread.

[Thomas_Not_very_wise]

Joric Featherfall was a bard/rogue, he never won pvP unless you count giving the coup de grace on the Ironhalo PvP, <.<


Drago Jather, Sugrim, all took exotic or martial and heavy armor. They hit for an average of 15-23 damage.

[ScruffyMcSmirkalot]

Wow... a nice simple solution and suggestion, Gippy, yet effective. I like it. This would at least give Bards 5+INT skillpoints, which would be a good step most definitely. Of course, you'd need to give 4 perform point bonus at level 1 too.
 
I'm all for this though. I'll say that while I don't play a bard currently, my most favorite character that I've played was a bard. I've always seen them as jack-of-all-trades, and 3.5E made this true with the skill point per level adjustment, which mechanically allowed them to have skills that would reflect usually the life of a well-studied scholar, or the life of a well-traveled vagabond with various skills he/she picked up on the way.
 
Do it Gippy. NNNNAAAAAAAAAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

[BigBadThief]

Bard song / curse song has been made into a free action on many servers as well. While it's called a free action keep in mind that they don't stack or overlap with another song and the duration can't be refreshed until it actually expires.  

In a sense it would make Bard song function like some Knight abilities (which still need buffs if you ask me!). The Skill Point issue is quite valid and there is a reason they were given more in later versions of DND. In fact, I believe perform was completely removed in 4th addition as well and players were left to openly decide on how well their character could perform, not completely sure on that however.

[Damien]

Adding some armours with 0% spell failure would correct any weakness in the bard class here imo.

[sylvyrdragon]

My current, Haevn, made it to level 8 (held it for all of 15 minutes then died sadly to spiders)

Anatia Leruex died at level 6 (Her highest level reached by the way)

Both were pure Bard builds, no multiclassing.  I can say that I have throughly enjoyed every moment of play with both of these characters.  Thou they are limiting mechanic wise, I wouldn't trade the times I've played / am playing them.

[ScottyB]

Two things that might easily be done:

1. Giving Bards a choice from Simple, Elf or Rogue weapon proficiency via optional override.

2. Making Bard Song a free action.

These aren't exactly big, but they're neat, and the first one lets bard concepts be more flexible. Assuming it works.

[Porkolt]

Might as well just make it elf because it's basically the same as the PnP bard proficiency.

[ScottyB]

Replacing Simple with Elf would actually be worse for bards (it's just bows, rapier and longsword), but Rogue doesn't include longswords.

I can't just give bards Elf proficiency on top of Simple.

It should be possible to give bards a choice from among the three, however.

[Zelknolf]

I can't just give bards Elf proficiency on top of Simple.

Make the override turn simple weapon proficiency into elf, then add a few choice lines in the OnPlayerLevelUp event that check for bard levels, elf weapon prof, and the absence of simple weapon prof, and then add simple weapon proficiency as a bonus feat to the hide on those who meet the conditions. Net result is bards with simple weapons + bows, rapiers, and longswords, albeit in a roundabout way.

[ScottyB]

We don't do messy hackjobs on this server.

Furthermore, your proposal won't pass character validation.

You can get a choice, which is more than you had before. Be happy.

[Relinquish]

Make it a choice, elf bards would loose out on the feature.

[BigBadThief]

Hopefully that free action song goes in! It's a need touch I think and allows them to be a little more effective / flavorful without wasting entire rounds. (Curse song would be included as well ?)