RP vs PvP

[Drakill Tannan]

If you have the chance to buff, then attack somebody, why not do it? If it exsists, you can do it. If you have the potion in your inventory, you can drink it.
 
Plus, almost 99% after PvP, there is RP. Nobody really just ~kills~. Even during assassinations, if there's time, the assassin can give a small speech as to why it happened, who hired them, etc.
 
Complaining about PvP isn't going to really get anything anywhere. I've been a part of alot of PvP, although some of it can get my heart racing, its all been a blast.
 
When the Blood Legion died, I was not the least bit pissed. You just need to work within your limits, then dream as a player to see what you can accomplish - then go for it. PvP will only make you reach that goal faster. Believe me.

IMO Decimate nailed it here.

PvP is RP.

[core]

Crying 'CLIQUE' after people disagree with you is bad form. There has been only one person posting in this thread who is a member of a clique, and that is derflaro. And the clique isn't even that good. Sort of like how they put all the disabled kids into remedial classes.

Jealousy is an ugly thing.

On-topic, I think that your complaint is mostly fueled by the fact that you were targeted personally. I remember another similar thread popping up after a mugging a year or so back about taking large amounts of gold from a pack, the weight of the gold, suggestions about introducing rules or scripts to prevent people from taking large amounts of gold and fleeing... essentially, I understand that you were upset by what happened, but it was all IC and, I think, reasonable enough -- you weren't FD'd and the player used his initiative in how much to take from you.

Greeley was a well-known bandit with one of the highest bounties that I can remember and an IC motivation for banditry. What you suggest is implementing contrived PVP rules and, even, class limitations that prevent players from using their own initiative, strangling roleplay somewhat. It sucks to get robbed, but I don't think the solution is more rules and limits -- indeed, the solution should not be OOC at all.

[Letsplayforfun]

While RiP is being exessive, there's some truth about classes meaning your PC has made some choice in life about what he likes and what he doesn't, what he plans to do or want he doesn't like to do, what he more or less knows (magic, lore?) and what he never gave a damn about.

Skill are there to be more precise, though.

That being said, most warrior/mercenaries turned to thuggery between wars, and rogue does not equal thief (but sneaks skill/disable trap/open locks probably does).

Last: RP vs PvP sounds bad. They should come together.

What i do fear is:
- people that PvP and then pretend to RP over what happened, when i would prefer mid-term/ long-term RP to lead to the PvP.
- people confusion "RP to PvP" with "insults/intimidate leading straight to duels/gank."

[RIPnogarD]

what local thieves guild?

This one..

Quote:
Unspecificed EFU:A Criminal Organization
Application required for entry.

Prominent criminal PCs may be invited to apply for entrance. If you believe your character is prominent, you may approach a DM for more info/whether an application may be warranted. Any information regarding this group, including its existence, is to be learned in game only.  

I guess, Stewards defend their honor, Stygians protect theirs but this criminal organization could care less who mugs who.

[derfo]

ah, the unspecified efu:a criminal organization should've regulated greeley's actions

[Ebok]

That criminal organization is either dead, or a function of old port. Our website still lists ORDER and SHARBONETH factions. I'd love to update it, but I don't think they'd let me have the access. lol

Meanwhile, there have been player run and populated thieves guilds that have indeed threatened and killed other pcs that were stealing on their turf. I've watched it happen. But it was a -roleplay- event between players, and even then some -people- choose to ignore the threats and challenge the guild.

These are people to people events. What happened to Olo was him getting beat by a dark knight in full-plate. What his occ statistics are has no relevance to the ic event that was taking place. Either way, no matter what the repercussions may have been, the event was happening with those characters then, and should be treated as any other event. PvP almost always comes with RP, but cannot always be avoided through RP.

I should note, that thieves guild? It was run by a wizard, not a rogue.

[Vaulted Shadows]

Yes and no. While pvp is always a necessary evil the fact of the matter remains EFU and even EFUA has always been a cutthroat place. I don't even like pvp, but I certainly find the constant danger a enjoyable rp theme to the server.

[Ebok]

Yes and no to what?

[Howlando]

This thread makes my head hurt, but I feel compelled to jump in.

FD'ing someone out of no where with no prior history is not good. That is not what happened though. But mugging characters for 200 GP is perfectly appropriate role-play for a bandit character. This kind of conflict is obviously not based off of ruining other people's fun (200 gp? come on) but is a way to portray a bandit which in turns gives the law, vigilantes, other criminals, all kinds of things opportunities for more roleplay and fun. A bandit that ambushes someone else with no dialogue is perfectly fine roleplay also - sometimes in the story the highwayman will shoot arrows from the trees at the hero, other times the highwayman will demand money first... just depends on the highwayman and his code.

As for the stuff about it being a new area - when you entered you could have gone back easily enough.

As for the stuff about all bandits should take the rogue class - that's just wrong, sorry. We are not playing DnD, we are playing EFU:A. It seems like I've had to remind you of this a lot in various threads. If you want a discussion of this issue maybe a separate thread may be best.

As for the stuff about "local thieves guild or whatever" - really, no comment, but it's not something any player should worry about as anything having to do with this would be IC.

Bottom line for me is that it is important for players to be relaxed about these things and being a good sport is extremely important. If you lose a hand of poker in a casino or a game of basketball with friends, do you get this upset? I appreciate that this thread is written with civility and have no issue with it but it is just kind of clear from your leaving post, tone, etc. that this incident bothered you quite a bit.

I understand PvP is stressful for many people but if it is THAT stressful then perhaps this is not an appropriate server.

[Drakill Tannan]

I don't want to sound like an ass, but EFU:A is a server based entirely on conflict, from what i've experiensed. PvP will happen, that is usually, how characters are ended, for instance.

If you are looking for a non-combat server, look for thain. There, you literaly need to ask the other player if he wants to PvP with you, and he needs to agree before you can continue.

[RIPnogarD]

As for the stuff about it being a new area - when you entered you could have gone back easily enough.

You're right, I could have... First thought that went breifly through my head was I ported to the wrong map. Second thought I said to myself, "I think it's a new map" and typed [Looks around...]... Then somebody sent me a tell about the new map and I replied... Then Greely approached and... .. . So... Unless I simply turned and ran the second I seen where I was, I basically didn't have time to go back.

Bottom line for me is that it is important for players to be relaxed about these things and being a good sport is extremely important. If you lose a hand of poker in a casino or a game of basketball with friends, do you get this upset?

Hmm... Good point... But did the dealer pull from the bottom of the deck? Did  I get elbowed in the face while playing basketball? But explain to me why it is that I'm the one that needs to be the good sport and not the guy that's obviously taking the cheap shot/low blow whatever you want to call it? Is it good sportsmanship to way-lay a PC that your PC has never interacted with?

As for the stuff about all bandits should take the rogue class - that's just wrong, sorry. We are not playing DnD, we are playing EFU:A. It seems like I've had to remind you of this a lot in various threads. If you want a discussion of this issue maybe a separate thread may be best.

Ok, fine. I do think I'm playing D&D most of the time but I guess it's the setting I'm in that confuses me a bit. After all Farune is a D&D setting. I'll try to keep in mind this isn't D&D.

ah, the unspecified efu:a criminal organization should've regulated greeley's actions

And to you derf... This isnt all about Greeley and Olo. It's about the situation in general so there is no need to defend your friend with smartass comments.

[putrid_plum]

You sound like a girl, man up.  It's a game, you lost fake gold on a fake character.  We all get mad but crying like a sissy boy and looking like a complete retard while everyone here is saying it was fair and explaining the reasons why to you in nice terms.  I decided to try it this way.

Point is, you could of left, yes right when he/you saw eachother.  You could of drank invis and ran, you could of paid him, you could of sang a little tune, you could of waited 15 mins and been OK and got your things?  This aint carebear land, shit happens.  Maybe next time you'll be more prepared... if you are man enough to not quit over such a stupid thing.

[AfroMullet]

Hmm... Good point... But did the dealer pull from the bottom of the deck? Did I get elbowed in the face while playing basketball? But explain to me why it is that I'm the one that needs to be the good sport and not the guy that's obviously taking the cheap shot/low blow whatever you want to call it? Is it good sportsmanship to way-lay a PC that your PC has never interacted with?

If I got elbowed in the face while playing basketball, I'd be angry for a while. But it was just a single game where that happens. There will still be other games. It is the same with EFU.

That was all the past. It is best to put it behind you. Shit happens, and if you let that kind of shit affect you and put you in a bitter mood, you're doing more harm than good to yourself.

You think you were treated unfairly by the mugger. Perhaps you were, perhaps you were not. Does it really matter? There are dozens of other players whom you can interact with that won't make you feel mistreated. Focus on interacting with those PCs. Don't focus on the ones that make you bitter.

Bad stuff happens. But there is always another day.

[lovethesuit]

It seems to me this all came about from a major miscommunication. If you had stayed around and seen it through, you would have seen Greeley get caught red-handed and lost exactly none of your stuff. I see you saying, very often, that things "should" have happened this way or that. But it should be very clear by now, that's what the DMs are for. In situations like this, you calmly approach a DM with your grievance and they help work it out.

What you're accomplishing here is exactly nothing, though. Do you want to come back? Do you want to prove us all wrong? So far, neither is likely from the way it seems. But then, neither is impossible either. It feels to me like you want to keep playing, but you also want some sort of resolution for this, and a guarantee that it won't happen again. For the first, I can say that the character that mugged you is dead, and that if you wanted to bring Olo back I'm sure his many, many, many friends would help him get back on his feet. As for the other, though, I'm afraid that -is- impossible.

There used to be an area in the Underdark called Lower Sanctuary, or Lower for short. For a while, in this area, PvP was allowed without any DMs around, despite the fact that there were many NPCs around. Why? Because it was a thuggish wasteland. Most of the people there could not Sneak Attack you, but were thugs and criminals nonetheless. Several events happened, some of which I was personally privy to, and the end result is that DM ended unsupervised PvP in all areas with NPCs.

Why? It was a shitstorm, almost every single time. Nobody likes to lose, and some people take it very poorly. And keep in mind, that's not what I'm saying happened here; this is something else entirely. But it shares the same problem of there not being any oversight for possible questions, grievances, and issues that arrive from PvP. The game is buggy at its very core, despite 69 some-odd patches. Unfortunately, if all PvP was banned without DM supervision in all areas, roleplaying would grind to a stand-still. We have 5 active DMs right now, it simply can't work that way.

So, we have to accept that mistakes will happen. The only guarantee any of us here at EfU:A can give you is that if you come to us, players like me or DM like those that have posted here, we'll help you work out your problems. What we won't do is coddle you, shake our heads like mother and say Oh, That Boy Of Ours! :rolleyes: when you do things like this:

And to you derf... This isnt all about Greeley and Olo. It's about the situation in general so there is no need to defend your friend with smartass comments.

You know you're the one being hostile, being sarcastic, outright rude, and completely unhelpful. And you also know we'll forgive you and work out the problems if you take the time to be civil about it. So, RIP, can you at least try? You're not a bad player at all and, excusing this recent unpleasantness (which I've also been guilty of in the past), I think most of us would rather have you here than not.

[Caddies]

I think this thread is losing a lot of it's original meaning, but I do want to point out that we did indeed cockblock Craddock's level advacement because he was acting too much like a rogue and not enough like a wizard.  We do expect people to accurately represent the class they've chosen and we put especially high scrutiny on high-level characters.

That'd odd, I remember several discussions in the DM channel where you basically admitted it was just because you were scared of me having access to L6 spells!

Back on topic:

I know the details of your PvP incident that has you upset and it was fine. As Mort mentioned, merely playing on EFU, you're basically signing an invisible contract that you're ready to be PvP'd at any time from anywhere under any circumstance. If you can't handle this, perhaps EFU is not for you. :(

And just for the record, 95% of all PvP on EFU is fun and done tastefully. I find the best sort of conflict is the lead up to PvP (bribery, blackmail, slandering, spying, etc) but at the end of the day PvP does occur and it will probably happen to everyone at some point. Roll with it, stay chill, enjoy it.