Today's conflict

[putrid_plum]

I was there.

[Sternhund]

My favorite part was when they all died but got tr'd for some reason making the consequences for attacking town almost nil save for the best amongst them who remained dead.

Ugh.

If I let the six to nine PCs who died all force perma in an encounter with NPCs that was weighted in the favor of the NPCs, I'm pretty sure the server would be complaining that I was being unfair. In fact, despite the TR's handed out, people still complain it was an unfair encounter.

Thanks for that.

[Dr Dragon]

forcing people to perma when forwarned there actions would lead to such? IF according to Sternhund he didnt perma people because theyd "Complain" I am going to complain right now saying people shouldnt be handed out TRS When they pursued a suicidal objective (attacking a colony owned by the most elite merc company in Old Port) Furthermore I think I should complain because after winning said battles against a NPC gang they were able to get the funds to post a 2000 gold on me and more money on Kershof. a random street gang somehow got the means of acquiring this large amount of funding in the poor and downtrodden docks with supposed huge gang wars..........I did not complain in this event. The point is when pursuing IG actions that risk PERMA people should embrace it.

[core]

The TRs were fair. I really don't see what the big deal is about this.

[Kotenku]

the "random street gang", IIRC got 10,000 gold from house Sharboneth, months ago. Wise investments (lol) could easily make that money multiply, even after spending a lot on equipment.

Also, what gives you the idea that the Docks people are poor? They are located in the DOCKS. ships. Trade. Moooney. The bulk of wealth is probably just concentrated in a few key places.

[9lives]

can't win, stardog

[Mannykins]

It was a difficult situation to handle and given the odds on either side, I think the end result was fair for both sides.

In Sternhund's position I would've been paused for a good half hour getting all RTS with those NPC's and working out what to do.

Sternhund made it interesting, hats off to him, imo.

[DaWarBeast]

Ugh.

If I let the six to nine PCs who died all force perma in an encounter with NPCs that was weighted in the favor of the NPCs, I'm pretty sure the server would be complaining that I was being unfair. In fact, despite the TR's handed out, people still complain it was an unfair encounter.

Thanks for that.

How so? Were they forced into the situation where they had to assault the gates? Was there no option to simply walk away from the foolishness? Many die to lesser mistakes and don't get a TR.

Hell I only died a couple of days ago to doing something stupid like attacking someone in the colony proper. I died for that mistake and learned a lesson about going up against the odds.

Edit: Oh and Porkolt I was there.

[EfUA_undercover]

How so? Were they forced into the situation where they had to assault the gates?

You so don't know, man.

[Gippy]

I was the impetus for this 'attack' with my PC, Jackin Hoxie, and I must say a large part of it was dictated by an OOC desire not to just kill the only two Stygian PCs that I'd seen up in the mountains randomly. I sort of operated under the impression that I could probably escape anything, that the NPCs would /want/ to make a deal (as NPCs have also taken hostages in the past, and other NPCs/PCs have paid them) and that a full 1/4th of all the Stygians on the island would not be present for this negotiation. The event was fine, really, from an IC perspective -- excepting the the cavalry which were impossible to detect and managed to 'appear' within seconds of the right moment to attack us and totally cut off a retreat which could've allowed all the PCs not to die. Throughout the event I was confused between what was ooc timing, and ICly timing. Like when Kedrian took forever and a day to bring down Fishes, ICly, I'd have kill the Stygian aspirant and tossed his head onto the walls because that's what I said I'd do -- but I did not want to kill this player because it was taking a long time to navigate things with NPCs. I was too nice oocly when I should've been more brutal. It is a shame when niceness is rewarded with overwhelming death. This is a trend that happens with all my halflings. While the IC stuff was fine, OOCly this reinforces in my mind that taking risks, leaving people alive, etc is fraught with too much risk compared to taking the easy way and jumping to FD. My PCs story is over. There's no learning experience for him because of this. He's dead. So OOC, all I can learn, is never to let people live? That I'd even get into this mindset is one of the reasons I'm taking an extended break.

Had we killed the two Stygians when they got subdued in the mountains, as some PCs suggested, Fishes would've been released for lack of paperwork and the fact that there was no PC Stygians to deal with him. Most of us still would not even be known as criminals.

Compared to: We did not kill the Stygians. We took them to the gates to get Fishes back, because ICly we were worried about him. We expected that we'd all become wanted criminals. We were okay with this because it allowed three PCs to live. Instead, we all got butchered by NPCs.

It is okay to have strong feelings about this event, it was not perfect, but it also was not wildly implausible or bad. Accept the IC consequences and don't be jaded to the ooc consequences of taking risks. If you've gotten to that point of being jaded, like me, take a break.

[derfo]

= (

[Caddies]

Well, not FDing people has always greatly increased the risk of your character dying. But it also greatly increases your reputation as a stylish player. Choosing to keep your enemies alive and prolong stories and conflict at the expense of 'winning' is probably the defining hallmark of an amazing player, and often leads to the best finales and events (like the one currently in discussion).

TBH, although Jackin died, he's still more of a memorable character for it than those that didn't and will probably go down in the EFU:A annals as a great hero/amazing villain (depending on the IC point of view). Honestly, coupled with a climactic death, that beats FDing a couple of lowbie Stygian PCs for fleeting IC material gains.

Short-lived yet epic characters have been your style since day one Gip, I'd be sad if you no longer wanted it that way! Hope to see you back soon.

[petey512]

My point of view on the subject is probably a little biased, as it was my character who'd been captured, but the way I see it, It was refreshing to see someone actually attempt to break someone out of prison for once, I've never seen that happen on any RP server. I think that what Gippy did was really great, especially since it involved more people then just killing the stygians would have.

Also, no-one really told Sternhund what was really going on, and so he had to do what he thought best with what limited information he had.

I think everyone needs to chill out and stop whining about how surviving characters have placed bounties and are hunting you down and etc. etc. If you've done something big enough to warrant a bounty or whatever, then that means you've done something awesome to encourage interaction so more players can get in on your story. It's not a bad thing, it's a good thing.

And honestly Gippy, the way that turned out was pretty badass. You had a stygian burn to death, for goodness sake. I would trade all my burnt out half-ass endings for one like that.

[Sternhund]

Gippy, we have already discussed this in private. Your character had ample opportunity to walk away and have his objective be fulfilled. During the negotiations it was my objective that no blood would be shed, while the character of the Stygian Armada would be expressed. The Armada's character was shown by them showing up in greater numbers as a reaction to seeing their men be threatened. We all know the Stygian Armada are loyal to one another foremost, and so this was portrayed.

Specialist Kedrian was following the character of the Stygian Armada. He was uncompromising to outrageous demands, while willing to be open to agreeable solutions. He would have traded the two Stygian PCs in exchange for Fishes + up to 1500 or 2000 gold, or similarly valued deals. The way Jackin Hoxie was threatening to kill his hostage in ten seconds unless Kedrian made up his mind would be seen as absurd in his eyes. Kedrian was not ready to get on his knees to beg and plead for Hoxie to show mercy, nor was he willing to lose face for the Stygian Armada by cowering to the time pressure of a criminal.

If Jackin Hoxie was more patient and reasonable in the negotiations, he could have walked away alive, and with lots of gold!

That's not what happened. Hoxie killed his hostage, Hoxie's men killed the other hostage, and the Stygians reacted according to how they should react to the death of their brothers. They attacked.

With regard to the attack, it turned out to be weighted in favor of the NPCs. It is my style as a DM to always be fun-oriented. I don't really care if some actions do not make sense. I want people that log onto our server to enjoy themselves. Thus, after the carnage was over and there was a conclusion of 8-9 PC deaths to the hand of NPCs, I concluded this was not going to be fun for many participants. I offered a TR to those who were not you or the two Stygian hostages. Those who would accept the TR would assume they were subdued and follow due course, whether it be jail or escape. I believe this was the best option.

Some players advocate I should have turned it into a slaughterfest and kill you and your supporters without remorse under the pretense that attacking the city is a serious action and consequences must be portrayed. Other players feel that NPCs resolving the situation was not appropriate, when a DM was specifically requested to handle the situation, and when no other PCs to my knowledge even exist that could have handled the situation. Some players feel the TR's were too generous. Only a few seem satisfied with the thought processes and outcomes that occurred behind an event that I was asked to perform without any sort of preparation.

Of course, there are always going to be critics. Let's say I follow the advice of some players and simply declare that all those who died would be permadead without compromise. I'd be labelled as an unfair DM. People would cry out that "niceness is rewarded with overwhelming death." Such comments are destructive and false. As illustrated here and in private, I wanted to cooperate with you while staying true to the Stygian Armada. I repeat, you had the option to leave negotiations with lots of money in hand. You could have reaped major benefits. It was the result of your character actions that this outcome came to be. Your character did not play the right cards. Thus, the event was not the fault of an unfair DM, it was the fault of in-game actions.

Either way, Jackin Hoxie ended on a high note. He was glorified by some, criminalized by others, and his actions had interesting repercussions in the immediate future. Really, I don't know what better way to end a character.

[Listen in Silence]

I for one, support Sternhund here.