DMs as Actors

[Gwydion]

Please take this constructively,

but I'd like to see more NPC possessions and RP from our DM staff.  I'm sure that some of you do this sometimes.  But the possessions I usually see are either due to PC requests - or the DM using the NPC as a tool to move a plot in some way.  

Both of those are great, but I'd like to request more random stuff from time to time.  Have fun with it!  

Some of the best memories I have on EFU Before and After are DM possessions.

I'd like to see a Stygian at the gates act IC and harass someone, or just shoot the breeze.  I'd like to see the Rubies being RPed a bit.  Elder Otoroo walking around and interacting.  All NPCs in general.

I know the DMs are busy, and I know they are working hard on cool stuff.

Have some fun and use your kickass RP skills sometimes without some deep/dark/important reason for possessing that NPC!

You guys are great RPers.  I've RPed with many of you.  

Let 'er rip!  We love it!

[DeputyCool]

This happens. No offense, but how can you make this suggestion when you hardly log in at all to see if it is going on? I never see HIKO THE BRAVE IG anymore, which is both sad and yet undermines your post!

Do not take what I have said as offense, on my part. I am not offended. Mostly because I think your suggestion is for something that currently goes down frequently already.

[TheImpossibleDream]

Erm this already happens from time to time in my experience.

[ScottyB]

All of us remember how fun it was when NPC X was randomly possessed just to liven up the atmosphere. DMs remember, too, and will decide to make the experience for someone else, on occasion.

I'm not sure this should really be a suggestion. Some reminiscing in General Discussion followed by, "I haven't seen much of this going on lately, hint-hint," might have been better.

[DeputyCool]

I disagree with Scotty. Not making this thread at all would have been better.

Lately, it seems to be a trend to make posts that are like "X is wrong, let's do Y" and phrase it in such ways so as to make it seem like light hearted urging at the DMs to do whatever. I think it should stop. Because every moment we have to spend answering these threads about how we aren't doing X, is another moment we aren't doing X.

And most of the time, it's just nostalgia dressed up as informed opinions.

[Gwydion]

Nope.

[Gwydion]

I disagree with Scotty. Not making this thread at all would have been better.

Lately, it seems to be a trend to make posts that are like "X is wrong, let's do Y" and phrase it in such ways so as to make it seem like light hearted urging at the DMs to do whatever. I think it should stop. Because every moment we have to spend answering these threads about how we aren't doing X, is another moment we aren't doing X.

And most of the time, it's just nostalgia dressed up as informed opinions.

This pisses me off.

I thought the point of having a suggestion forum was to make suggestions.  

I didn't spend my time making this thread to be made to feel like a whiny bitch or say the DMs aren't doing a good job.

This is the last suggestion or OOC thread I'm every going to make, because I'm sick and tired of having people talk down to me when I do it.

Remove the entire damn forum if you don't want any suggestions.


DONE

[DeputyCool]

Suggestions are ways to share your ideas in order to improve the setting. They should be simple, free of hostility/rant and demonstrate some understanding of how EFU:A works. Although everyone loves to share their opinion and seems to believe that every suggestion must be rated in some way by them, this is not the case and just creates ground for opposition and hostility.

Your suggestion did not follow these basic suggestion guidelines, and thus I said it would've likely just been better kept to yourself! Your suggestion while one you thought might improve the gameworld was not something you can't really judge given your extremely limited playtime. Thus, I didn't see the point of the thread, except as something to drum up people saying "Yeah, we don't get enough of that!"

If you choose to take my response in such a way, and be a martyr, that is fine. It is your right to refrain from posting any "OOC posts" as you put it. But I think you're reacting a bit childishly, and taking what I said far too personally. When I said that it would have been better not being made, it is the simple truth. I think it would have. Does that mean I think you're a "whiny bitch"? No, if I thought that, I would have said it.

Overall, I simply think this was an unnecessary thread! Your suggestion that we don't want any suggestions, just because I said this one was unnecessary is again, incredibly over the top. Just keep the mellow, bro. And if you want to complain, make sure you know enough to be complaining first!

[Gwydion]

Yes, maybe I overreacted.  When I perceive that someone is treating me in a disrespectful fashion, I don't appreciate it.  

I do understand how EFU:A works.  Please don't patronize me.  

You've chosen to focus on the fact that I haven't played as much for the last few weeks as a reason to dismiss the validity of my suggestion.  It appears to me that you are reacting defensively to my suggestion and are touchy about any suggestions towards the DM's actions.  

"Lately, it seems to be a trend to make posts that are like "X is wrong, let's do Y" "

I NEVER said anything was wrong.  Don't put words in my mouth.  And I didn't make those other posts, so please direct your ire towards those who are doing so.


"it's just nostalgia dressed up as informed opinions."

I find this offensive.  I've played my stargazer for about 7-8 months.  In that time and the hundreds of times he's entered the Starwood Village, the number of times I've seen a DM possess an NPC without being asked to do so can be counted on one hand.  

I've NEVER seen an NPC possessed in the Exile Camp.  I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I haven't seen it.  I've never seen an NPC randomly possessed in the Stewards base area the dozens of times Hiko has been there.  When my PC Hiko has been in the zig areas, it has been extremely rare to see an NPC possessed for reasons not directly related towards plot machinations and performing important actions.

Maybe this is happening more often with the NPCs in the zig.  Maybe this happens more in time zones that I am not playing in.  Maybe some of the DMs are doing it a lot.  If that is the case, then just say so and I'll say "Oh, cool!".  Saying that I haven't played enough lately is irrelevant.    

I'm not sure why you felt it necessary to bring up the amount of time I have played lately.  These observations are based on the last six months or so, which included periods when I played quite a bit more often.

If you feel that these observations are incorrect fine.  I can handle that, and go on without feeling "miffed" that this suggestion wasn't heeded.  But your second post was patronizing, and worse, implied that my attempt was a thinly veiled attempt to criticize the DM staff.

It wasn't.  In fact, I was pointing out that I'd like to see some of the amazing RP that I saw from the DMs when they were players.  That's a compliment.  

Here's a simple question.  When I WAS playing a lot more, and you saw my PC out and about when you were DMing, did you ever engage him with an NPC for some non-plot related RP?  Or have an NPC doing anything random in an area nearby?   If so, thanks.  I really enjoy those little things.

That's all I was saying.

[DeputyCool]

I simply don't see what the point of the suggestion was. If it was to say that we should do something we already do, it was not strictly necessary. If it was to say we should be doing something we weren't, then you were misinformed to say we weren't.

If it wasn't either of those, it wasn't a suggestion at all. I have completely lost track of what you were trying to accomplish at all, if it was not either of those things.

As to your question, I have in fact engaged Hiko in Stargazer RP while he was just hanging out in the village. But the thing is, there is no way for you to be judging how much this does or does not happen, if you don't log in! In the 14 months your PC has existed, he has 57 hours of playtime. That is less than 5 hours of playtime per month. I personally do not feel that is enough for you to have made the judgement as to what is going on IG adequately. That is not "ire" or a "jab" it is merely the truth.

As I said above, if your intent was not to suggest we were not doing something, then there is just no point to this post. If it was to suggest we weren't, then I don't think it was valid.

Either way, I stand by what I said. I don't think this post was strictly necessary. That doesn't mean I am condemning you. You'll also notice that when I made the statements about these sorts of threads, there is no reference to you as a person, or even as one of those number, although obvious inferences could be made. The point I am trying to make is not that you are a terrible person, or that you should not feel free to post what you will, but rather that before making observations, be sure that you have enough data.

Overall, chill, bro, and log in to see some of the RP that you want to see.

[Razored Aria]

The poster may have made an error in posting the suggestion, and all of the subsequent responders likely have valid points.  However Deputy Cool, with language like this:
 

thus I said it would've likely just been better kept to yourself

you should ask yourself if your replies were intended to be needful defensive of the DMs of EfU, or if you were attempting to help clarify the original poster's missconception.  If it was the former goal, congrats, another battle won, at the cost of another person's good time.  If it was a latter, I think it's obvious this attempt was a fail.  Every opinion has a polite and diplomatic way of being presented.

was not something you can't(sic) really judge

Everyone is entitled to judgment, telling someone they are not qualified to make a judgment is a logical fallacy, and will inevitably make them either angry or unwilling to share in the future.

If you choose to take my response in such a way, and be a martyr

Your posts were either intended exactly the way they were received, or you have a real communication issue, because an insulting condescending tone was clearly present throughout.  Also handing down a negative judgment for an involuntary action you dislike isn't at all fair.

I think you're reacting a bit childishly

Insulting.

If you want to complain, make sure you know enough to be complaining first!

 Doesn't get more condescending then that.

Does that mean I think you're a "whiny bitch"?

It's implied, if not overtly stated.

I didn't see the point of the thread, except as something to drum up people

If the point was not seen, you should determine whether the poster was simply in error, or you misunderstood what was posted before launching a diatribe against the poster.  The language used in the original post struck me personally as seeking to be constructive about what was likely a touchy issue.

Please take this constructively,

I'd like to see

Both of those are great

Some of the best memories I have on EFU Before and After are DM possessions.

I know the DMs are busy, and I know they are working hard on cool stuff.

You guys are great RPers.

Her posts contain as many positives as yours do negatives.  It is obvious to me that the poster was afraid of just your sort of response which I see on too many persistent worlds.  Sure the attitude has valid reasons, but it is still ultimately destructive.

[Divine_Barbarian]

Woah...that earlier post...amazing. Razor Aria ftw.

[DeputyCool]

I had a long post written up, but then I lost it so I will abridge myself.

My posts are indeed negative and in some ways condescending. But that is simply honesty. I enjoy that on EFU, we as a DM Team are open. I could easily have swept this under the rug and said "Good suggestion, will keep it in mind" while thinking to myself "Whatever, bro." and nothing would have ever happened one way or the other. But on EFU, it has never been hard to get DMs to tell you what they really think. Sometimes, what they really think is not pretty, or what you want to hear, but at least you aren't left in the dark wondering if the smile on our faces is real, or just a show!

Gwydions original post is in fact polite, and entirely within bounds as far as a suggestion goes. My only complaint, as far as it goes, is that it is based on an inadequate amount of data, and thus cannot really be taken for anything more than uninformed conjecture. If he really thought this was an issue, why not take it to a DM privately and say "I have been thinking this, do you think it is valid at all, or not?" and he likely would've received the same answer (i.e. Find out by playing more).

The fact is, my main complaint about this is that if someone lacks the foundation to raise a complaint, they should not do so anyway. They should be more introspective than that, and think to themselves before posting "Is what I have to say true?".

I will not always sugar coat what I have to say, and by doing so you can be sure that what I say is what I mean. I think this is preferable, even if it is occasionally vitriolic.

P.S. Gwydion is a dude. Now who's insulting the guy?

[SkillFocuspwn]

I find when it comes to things like this, things that are the DMs efforts, it's best to leave it to them. The DMs don't make any rules on how you play except for keep it IG, so we shouldn't really start trying to tell them what we want from them! They give enough already.

[Razored Aria]

P.S. Gwydion is a dude. Now who's insulting the guy?

Damnit; I knew I should have stuck to gender neutral terms.