'Arcane research'

[Box]

This is something that has been on my list of peeves for a while. To really do any sort of research with any tangible results (Not counting alchemy of other forms of crafting) You need a DM throughout most of the process to oversee/respond to your research for anything to actually happen or for you to get anything out of it.

A sentiment that has been echoed back some several times to me in the past, is that this makes stuff like researching pretty much any magical stuff  impossible to do without a DM. Which is frustrating, since grabbing a DM to oversee this stuff is often hard!

I'd suggest there be sets of 'research notes' or some other scripted loot that could be found on quests or somesuch without a DM, that a PC can find and gather sets of these items and with scripted spellcraft/lore checks, 'complete' the research and gain some sort of benefit. Anywhere from small permanent boosts to spellcraft or lore, to minor benefits to whatever school they practice. Somewhat longer summons, minor scrying abilities, slightly improved undead summons, and maybe some more powerful ones as well.

As PCs work to gather and research certain things, a DM can watch them proceed on their own and then later if the PC is doing well, help them along with more advanced/ DM required stuff.

[ScottyB]

I am so sad that we've fallen down the slippery slope of becoming a crafting server.

[Talir]

You excel by studying, not randomly collecting various pieces and performing rolls. I am not interested in this. Wizards dedicated to their school of pursuit will get benefits if they really push for it, and yes this will require something from us as well. There's a lot you can do without us to pursue this line as well that don't need more scripted additions to grant permanent bonuses.

[Relinquish]

It's not really research if its just handed out to you as ambient loot. Do the footwork if you're really interested in it

[derfo]

what's wrong with typing *does arcane research* then actually doing involving shit

[Egon the Monkey]

More puzzles and riddles IMO. Yes, there are crafting drops, but I've only seen one that is a puzzle. Playing Ahmed, I used to keep doing The Longest Night in order to get full translations. Skillchecks don't require interaction, but getting help with a riddle, physical puzzle or code does.

Sternhund's scripted puzzles in the library and gem mines quest are brilliant and a real RP-promoter for investigative PCs. Those mines are the only QA where I've spent as much time in there after the quest finished as the quest itself took.

Stuff like that doesn't require DM input beyond the setup but adds some mysteries and plots that require only player initiative and thinking to solve.

For example, an arcane circle that'll give you some sort of bonus or item, but requires you to find the correct ritual to activate it. Clues would be provided on book placeables around the circle, and would be ciphered, in riddles, or otherwise difficult to figure out. The ritual itself would involve casting a rarely-used spell (Ghoul Touch, Hideous Laughter, Ice Dagger etc.) from each school on some placeables in the right order, and would inevitably involve finding these rarer spells and collaborating with a wizard with a different opposed school, or another spellcaster PC. There's the mechanics for it from some other puzzles, so it shouldn't be too hard to design.

[Porkolt]

I recall a very brilliant puzzle when we played the Iron Halo the first time, involving mirrors.
 
It took us quite a few hours to find the solution, in fact I had to log off before we did, but even though jack shit happened, it was a lot of fun!
 
Rather than making most quests directly combat-related, creating a few more quests that involve complicated puzzles and the like, that involve a -group- effort, would be quite interesting.
 
Instead of, for instance, an archetypical research quest, the Observatory, which is only walking in and killing the imps without doing any research at all!

[Caddies]

I have always found the whole concept of 'arcane research' to be dull and tedious. I mean, fighters shouldn't be spending all their time roleplaying push-ups and sword swings, they should be fighting things and leveling up the traditional way-- I think wizards should be as well. It goes without saying a high level wizard is spending copious amounts of time in the 'background' researching arcane tomes and lore and formula...there is no need to go berserk with this boring facet though.

For those that somehow think 'arcane research' is enjoyable as opposed to leveling up fighting monsters, making factions, telling stories...well, you're welcome to pursue it. But don't expect a DM to be interested. <_<

I think with all the necromancy, alchemy, poisons and other treats (including golem crafting) that DMs have added in the past and sprinkled clues about via ambient loot, there is enough to pursue.

[Box]

For those that somehow think 'arcane research' is enjoyable as opposed to leveling up fighting monsters, making factions, telling stories...well, you're welcome to pursue it. But don't expect a DM to be interested. <_<

This is pretty much what I was getting at. A DM watching a PC learn minor shit is boring and you can't expect them to be interested, honestly! But a PC who is trying to learn for example - scrying, accessing some of the more powerful summoning themes, or how to become a pale master is going to need DM attention pretty much every step along the way, which is totally unnecessary tbh. Since the examples I gave are pretty powerful stuff, yes they are eventually going to need a DM, but I would prefer to have something scripted or otherwise, as another step a players could do themselves without having a DM, allowing them to accomplish a fair deal on their own and with others before approaching a DM saying 'I've/We've done all the other stuff, can you help me/us finish it off?'

Caddies gave a bunch of examples of stuff players can do without ever needing a DM, but that is really not what my suggestion was geared at. My suggestion is for stuff that you currently need a DM to even try to persue, to add a step to ease the process and allow players to do it at their own pace without requiring constant DM attention.

[Paha]

Personal journal while doing stuff like going to places to do things, do research or so - quite kickass tool I tell you. Then at some point when you "enter" a more major test, ask a DM. Surely someone has seen you've been up to something.

[Box]

That is the thing, Paha_Poika. You can't really journal about something if you don't have anything to journal about! Right now it is not really possible to even start to pursue these things without at least some DM attention to kick you off.  But aside from alchemy/herbalism/consecration/cooking, there is pretty much nothing along these lines a player can do without DM supervision all the way!

If there were intructions/components/ancient research notes of ultimate power, etc. that you could find and gather to start and then use the personal character notes to tell the DM team what you/your group is doing, then they can eventually step in and help you finish off later down the road!

[derfo]

I think things are fine as is. I'm sure puzzles and riddles and all that sort of stuff can be distributed as a reward to those players that involve, as a DM's time and interest permits. Arcane research can be documented in that one sub forum in the journal area, as such is it's purpose, and I'm sure said interested DMs are inclined to look there.

[Gippy]

Exemplify the use of your school's magic while doing the things that you already like to do. You're not playing RESEARCH wizards. Leave that to NPCs. You're playing WIZARDS that go out, adventure, and crush stuff with their magic hoping to come across new scrolls/trinkets while honing the use of their magic in difficult situations.

[Drakill Tannan]

I agree with Gippy- although i also agree with egon. I certianly don't see myself emoting for half an hour Dram researching anything. However i do like puzzles and i think adventuring should involve killing monsters as much as solving puzzles. If this puzzles give you acces to new recipies (alchemy/herbalism) or a way to earn a spellslot permanently after solving them, an item, a summoning theme... anything that empowers the wizard i can see myself trying to solve thouse puzzles, because it is also fun and it is rewarding. If this puzzles force players to go to dangerous areas, even better, since it encourages people doing something else than quest that requires fighting.  that number to few, making powerfull wizards awsome.

Also there should be a way to find IG things about the gameworld, random drops for this things are lame IMO. However certian areas contain stone tables that can be read through a lore check. Some of these could be added that revealed things about EFU:A, like how to become a palemaster, or even clues on the path of the bloodmage, hard alchemy/herbalism recipies to find etc.

[Letsplayforfun]

Gippy's nailed it. This is an more or less action server, remember? Go out, fireball stuff, loot, then your PC will "improve". If it's against PCs, it's even better. Best force foes into telling you their secrets than studiying boringly in your lab. Otherwise you'd get XP at no risk. There's lots of clues left out there for "action-research", and i assure you it's much more time consuming than questing.