Confusion Deaths

[bob7el]

I ran this through IRC and came up with mixed results, so I'd thought I'd post this in the suggestion forum.  I'm not trying to subvert any hard-set DM decisions; I just wanted to (respectfully) gather opinion on the matter, as long as they're welcome.

someone on IRC said they were killed by a 'confused' team mate and couldn't respawn due to the PvP restriction.

If you are referring to the spell effect confusion, or similar - IMO that is not a bug. You are being killed, ICly by another player. Just because they are not controlling it does not make that fact any less IC.

working exactly as intended.

As a note, I cropped the quotes from this thread:
http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20517
I think it's everything relevant to this suggestion, but any non-believers can check for themselves.

To clarify, someone was killed during a scripted quest by a confused team mate and couldn't respawn due to the PvP restrictions.  A DM wasn't available (and I think the character had to retire).  Now, I'm usually in support of hardcore restrictions, but I don't really see the reasoning in allowing miraculous recoveries and near-death experiences (dying and respawning) against monsters, which exhibit a full intent to kill you, and not being allowed to do so against a monster-confused player.

I don't really think the PvP argument does this case justice, when a player's control for their character becomes completely suspended through a monster's actions.  To me, it seems similar to a mob using an ally to chain a lightning bolt off of.  Or an ally hitting an AOE trap, inadvertently killing another player.  In these scenarios, the ally is merely a vessel for the monsters' actions.  The only difference is you can respawn from these cases.

In any way, I think it's a bit harsh to forcibly retire a character that dies on a scripted quest from a confused team mate.  Granted, they could carry the player back and scrounge together a 1000 gold.  But I don't think every group will always be willing and able.  (And personally, I prefer the near-death experience story to purchasing life for 1000 gold pieces.)

Now, every player could just turn subdual on when they go on a quest with confusion-casting monsters.  But this doesn't apply very well to all IC cases, as some pointed out on IRC (and there's always going to be someone who forgets, anyways).

So, my actual suggestion would be to allow the player who inadvertently caused the death of a team mate to respawn through a text command, such as "/c allow_respawn [name]".  This would allow players the common respawning grace from scripted quests, while leaving normal PvP unjeopardized.

As I said, opinions are welcome.

[Jasede]

I'd like a DM position on this myself, as last time I saw this happening, a (kind) DM did actually respawn the player who couldn't because of that.

However, your suggestion - I like it, but what prevents a player from letting someone he killed in PvP respawn? I know I'd be tempted to if I had just killed my best OOC buddy in PvP. I think the less temptations, the better.

[lovethesuit]

I'm surprised this is even an issue. Being unable to respawn from PvP is a completely OOC mechanic that has no place as a "feature" on a quest. This cannot be working as "intended". There has to be some way to fix the script.

[PanamaLane]

So, my actual suggestion would be to allow the player who inadvertently caused the death of a team mate to respawn through a text command, such as "/c allow_respawn [name]". This would allow players the common respawning grace from scripted quests, while leaving normal PvP unjeopardized.

I like this idea. However, as you mentioned, the simple solution is just to make certain you flip to subdual dmg before any quest. So, do that and if a DM decides to get to it then great, otherwise you should be covered.

[Garem]

Was the problem of people returning after being perma-PvP'd so great as to merit this kind of script so people CANNOT get raised from PvP (accidental or real)?

I'd imagine THOSE cases are far fewer than accidental FD PvP deaths. I never knew of any problem, and stick to the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality. Or, in this case, "it ain't broke, so just let's just dump the fancy stuff since now it's kinda broke". My grandpa taught me that last one, I think. Look it up, real saying. >.>

[Howlando]

My view is that PCs that die to confused PCs should likely be allowed to respawn. It's such a rare event that I don't think it's something we can reasonably script around though, so really the dead PC should just get a DM to help them out.

[Canzah]

In the event that there is no DM available, and BAM the server crashed before one is found. There will be much tears.

An unlikely scenario, but I've seen and had similar things happen in the past.

Just my addition to the rambling...

[BrittanyPanthas]

All I can say is pray that the person confused person has subdual mode on. -.-

[Snoteye]

To elaborate:
 
When confused, your damage mode will be set to FD. I am unclear as to whether it will be set back when the duration expires. This change was made a few months back... Not the case after all!
 
It could theoretically be scripted out of, but, considering how often this actually occurs compared to the way NWScript behaves in (especially when the element of lag is introduced), I do not think it worth the effort.

[Junketeer]

Having died to an umberhulk induced confused fellow party member I understand the frustration on the PVP prevention from respawning.
 
Yet, I did get a DM to help bring me back to the realm of the living.
I don't think a Player controllable command to remove a PVP death mark is worthwile.  
 
If no DM was available I would have waited till the next time I got on in order to get a DM's attention, thereby removing the need to prematurely forcibly retiring a character.
 
{Of course the umberhulk decided to sleep on top of my things, so I lost most of my stuff anyway.  I think somebody took a screenshot of that umberhulk and all my stuff.  O.o}

[I can has fun?]

The solution: put "/c subdual subdual" and "/c subdual full" on quickslots, and remember to turn that shit off when you're done with your PvP.

There are certain habits I've developed since I started engaging in PvP on this server, and randomly clicking my "Subdual Mode" quickslot, even when I have done no PvP, is one of them.

[Ommadawn]

You can also just set up one slot with "/c subdual next" if you don't want to use two slots, which toggles your mode to whatever you want if you click it enough times. Either this or I can has fun's suggestion is well worth setting up for this and for that sudden PvP you weren't expecting.  <_<