Factions rant

[Halfbrood]

XP and Quests don't come from nothing. Try being more active, chat on the faction forums make your own plots/goals known. Ranting in Off Topic will only serve to foster subconscious dislike.

[Thomas_Not_very_wise]

This post is funny for two reasons.

1) no one has trolled.

2) because this has garnered interesting opinions from all ends of the spectrum!


To me, player factions are numbers. You seek to gain as many people to join your faction, and you hope that a few key members will be active and try and report what they seek to do at all times and list their intentions and goals for the faction.

Members of the faction might not like/disagree with each other, and thus, may be excluded at a certain moment of time. It is up to the person who INVITES THEM INTO THE FACTION to involve them, not the people who were ALSO invited.

Shooting tells to fellow faction members stating, "I am about to do trogs, meet me outside kingsman if you are gonna join." In my opinion is a soft form of metagaming, and is 'okay' as long as it doesn't become, "HELP, I AM BEING GANKED BY BANITES IN THE SEWERS." (Apologies for team bane for using them as an example.)


Just my 0.02$ cents.

[sylvyrdragon]

If the 'tells' of "hey were are you" is what bothers you the most... Then initiate them.  You log in, look around, can't find them, then send a tell.  Or grab them on IRC...

There are many ways of keeping a group together.  But, it takes the actions of the entire group.  I've been in a few factions now, and I can say that many times you can feel the odd man out.  But, if you don't take the inititive, how can you expect others to?


Now, I've been in some that were excellent about letting you know EVERYTHING that was going on.  And I've been in some that are horrible at it.  It's not always the 'players' that are the cause, but the actual workings of the Faction.  Sad to say not all factions are created the way the Mithrilsouls were.  Some are about 'earning' your place, before you gain those perks.  Others just offer it right up.

[Cerberus]

ok, fist I'd like to clear up that I never said PC's in the same faction couldnt have tiffs. But that doesnt mean the players behind those PC's have to ignore each other.
 
Second, I dont really send a hell of alot of tells unless I have a good kinda OOC reason or it's kinda not really pertenate to IG/IC stuff. I use it to lol and shit at something that was said IG just to let the player know I appriciated it. Or to say sorry for walking away I was just staying IC. Shit like that...
 
Lastly my point is that if you see playerA from your faction log into game and say "beh" and keep doing whatever, but then playerB logs in and you jump on him like stink on shit, your part of a clique, accept it. You're being freindly to playerB (thats obvious), You're being rude to playerA and and thats wrong.

[Halfbrood]

My point is you shouldn't rely on others to feed you plots and interaction, its a two sided coin.

[Listen in Silence]

You must really be quite unfortunate in the type of factions you've managed to drop into.

Having played the role of second-in-command for a long sequence of factions and been responsible for just what you're talking of now -  keeping the players busy and organizing them between the big happenings - I've seen nothing of this exclusive-happy attitude within factions. It is a common enough occurance in questing parties without steady ties to one another, but that's simply natural.

Try switching around. If you dislike the "cliques" you see, maybe you should seek out other "cliques" and see if these "cliques" are more open minded to characters in their factions.

[Paha]

I of all people should know, you need two for a fight, and there is always a reason if someones character or the player hangs more with someone else. I highly doubt anyone is being rude or mean to you, because it sounds like you have whole lot of enemies by what you are saying.

I suggest you listen to sylvyr. Take inititive if you want to get in and things to happen. You cannot expect to be tutored and guided through whole story. I am putting a very clear point out here, because this is how I see it.

[Dash]

And you keep saying that you expect someone esle to send you tells and try to find you, but it seems like you never do exactly what you expect everyone else to do. Why are you throwing the responsibility of involving you onto everyone else's shoulders?

I run a faction right now, and I try my best to involve people and you are not in my faction so personally I don't think you have a right to start throwing accusations out at me.

But basically, it sounds to me like you are having a big cry that someone isn't sharing their new shiny toy with you. Get over it, man. It's not everyone else's responsibility to find you and bring you into the fold.

[Caddies]

Been playing this game for years and never once seen someone in a faction (DM or PC faction) been deliberately ignored by other members. Either you got severely unlucky with whatever faction you're in or more likely its just a case of misconception.

[Meldread]

I've been in a similar circumstance as Cerberus before, so I know how he feels.  In my case, being ignored was 100% IC for the PC's involved but that didn't make it any better.  So I understand how Cerberus' feels.

That being said, I have also been on the other side of the fence.  My current PC is the leader of the Banite PC Faction, and there are certainly a small handful of members that stand outside of the circle of trust for IC reasons.  OOCly, I try to make sure everyone is involved on some level when we're doing generic stuff like questing.  However, when it comes to plotting / scheming and things of a sensitive nature I do my best to ensure they are not directly involved.  All of that can change if they prove themselves trustworthy.

Even still, there are some cases where people are accidentally OOCly excluded.

My suggestion?  Send a tell to members of the faction, in particular one of the factions leaders, and find out where they are located.  If they are nearby just standing around, find them, hook up, and do stuff.  Seriously.  I can tell you from experience that you get MORE out of a faction than what you put into it.  

In my current faction we have lots of members.  We didn't realize this many people would join us when we came up with the faction idea... but in every faction I've ever been in there has always been a small handful of individuals that drove it forward.  I realize that most of the people I invite will inevitably go off to do something else, or simply just... be there.  Those that are just "there" do not really advance the aims of the faction (or even their own PC!).  It is a lot of work trying to find something for everyone to do and keep people busy and entertained daily.  Roughly speaking one out of every five faction members recruited will actually be worth the time, energy, and resources invested in them by the faction.  (In other words their contributions to the faction outweigh the effort put into them by the leaders and membership.)

So, yeah... my suggestion is to insert yourself into the faction and make them involve you.  Invite yourself on quests.  Find out where they are and chill with them when they aren't up to anything, and do what you can to advance the cause of the faction, thus in turn making yourself an important member.  

Virtually every PC I've had over the years on EfU has been in a faction.  I've yet to find a faction that did not go out of its way to support such characters, and it didn't even matter who the players were!  And if you think there is some OOC reason that you're being excluded just ask the players in question OOCly what's up.  "Hey guys, I'm wondering what's up?  You guys keep leaving me behind when you go and do stuff."  

I can't speak for anyone else, but I know if someone were to send me a tell like that, I would be quick to include them.  Factions hate losing members, even ones that really don't contribute much to the faction.  Also, personally, on an OOC level I hate for players to feel like they aren't having fun.  So even if there is an -IC- reason for me to exclude them, I'd likely go out of my way to rope them into something, somewhere, somehow.

I hope things work out for you, Cerberus.

[IxTheSpeedy]

Cerberus, if you want a low maintenance inclusive faction, join the elves...  We love everybody...

Seriously though, just sounds like you need to be a bit more discerning with your faction affiliations.  Hey, not every faction is meant to be inclusive.   IC'ly or OOC'ly.

[SN]

lol wut dud?

its obvious that it a faction has ~15 people, someone can, and WILL be forgotten from time to time.
Neither can everyone be included in everything at the same time. Even with the silly questing, you cant/want to take everyone, because they are too low level to be risked dragged along/you are very low and supplies and you want to minimize the ammount of ppl for restocking purposes/because you dont fully trust a member/because your PC is simply a cunt and will be a cunt/et caetera et caetera

You ought to make sure to get ~all~ the information before you make a judgement, as there is a shitload of factors involved into anything.

Have you actually tried talking with the person/ppl that have wronged you? Speaking your worries and shit? you might have gotten a clear answer right away this way, abd by posting and ranting here, I'm sure that many ppl will think: lolzwtfdudwut.

Though, everyone should have ~something~ to do, even if it's floor scrubbing of the guildhall, and should be treated fairly OOC.

[Kotenku]

People aren't going to want to hang out with you, and go out of their way to involve you, just because you join their faction. Maybe they should, but that's just not the way it'll ever be, unless it's an extraordinary player who is just damn great at leading a faction.

Yes, there are close-knit groups of players (and characters) on EfU, and the fact that they enjoy doing things together does not mean that you are being deliberately victimized when you don't get involved.

It's hard for me to believe I've got to say this, but if you want to be friends with people IC, then you have to actually become friends with them IC. Whether it should or not, being friendly and engaging OOC helps in a big way.

Ranting on the forums though, especially about something so baseless and inconsequential, however, is counterproductive.

[Noob]

...

I feel your pain, I generally roll on a new server with friends - but that whole wacky permadeath thing scared most of them off for a number of reasons; The following is what I think I've learned about factions to date in the game...


A> Bigger isn't Better.
Sure, the Armada nets you fullplate, but alot of the dm driven/fixxed organizations seem to be hindered by a reliance on dm's because of rank and all that jazz - you play cogs in the machine, which has it's merits, but some pretty horrid flaws as well. On the other hand, two of the best "factions" I've seen to date have been the Elves and the Loyalists (If you can't deal with the floppy ears) - which seem to survive based on player enthusiasm alone, which generally means they're pretty inclusive and theres usually folks around. I would be playing my elf more ~ but his build brings on slight twangs of guilt.

B> Pick based off players you get along with.
A faction can have 20 people, but if you don't particularly know a bunch of them its just 20 strangers that you might or might not get along with -- picking a faction because you like the theme of it might be nice in theory, but your better off getting to know a few folks ic and ooc and see what they're doing. That or follow Thomas around, he seems friendly enough even if his characters have lemming-like survival instincts <.<

Lastly, while it might seem joining a faction would be a great way to see the server? My experience is that it makes for good rp, but also cuts off alot of potential rp with other groups, or makes it so most interaction will be hostile, until you're terribly familiar with the groups ig it seems more advantageous to actually avoid the factions and try late entry. Anyhow, I hope everything works out for you.

[politoed_]

Players will be more inclined towards those factions that are doing things, making profit (or whatever their RP equivalent is), have active people, etc.

Factions will look for the players that have initiative and goals they are actively pursuing, etc.

That's roughly how it is, and it's fine like that. Naturally there might be some bumps and the like, or some might deviate from this scheme.

Obviously, it's never going to be perfect in that regard, and maybe some factions truly do have that clique mentality that disregards you. In that case you should probably react to it ICly by displaying your usefulness or worthiness or whatever other ends you want to achieve, or it might be time to look for another faction, or even rally people to your own.

Really, all these complaints seem pretty invalid to me. Many times, as both useful and worthless PCs - mechanically, socially, or otherwise, or even on characters that were pretty much a hindrance to the faction's goals, I was always included when it was deemed reasonable.

On my most successful ventures like with Dread Crew, Montezzi, amongst others - which I was always under the impression were considered widely all pretty successful factions - I never really knew anyone OOCly when I started off in them, and that was always fine. Just keep trying and poke around.