Sense motive

[Drakill Tannan]

Would be a good Efuss skill. No more "Hey, you counter bluff with inteligence, not with spot" "Hell no, it's concentration you moron!"

(that has actually never happened to me on this particular server, but nobody bluffes for this reason i think.)

Basically, it's just a counter to persuade, bluff and.. intimidate and taunt? not sure about thouse two.

[Luke Danger]

Yes please! I'm sick of having to argue about what rolls to use if we're bothering, and trying to figure out what's a good indicator of anti-bluff/persuade, etc

[AfroMullet]

Isn't it somewhat pointless to roll when trying to bluff a PC? You shouldn't determine whether or not you believe someone based on a bluff roll. That's dumb.

Of course people should have some ranks in bluff if they constantly try to lie to PCs, but that is an entirely different matter. It's up to you to decide whether or not you want to believe someone who is trying to bluff you.

[Halfbrood]

Rolls do not make up for good old fashioned roleplay.

[johanmaxon]

I'd say bluff vs bluff.

A person who often lie, and are good at it, could probably also see when someone else does it.

The roll can also be used as a hint, if there is no emoting or such.

[Canzah]

I have sometimes complied when people have asked for rolls on this or that, but honestly I don't like it.

As has been mentioned above, if you are going to be lying/bluffing/whatever someone ranks should exist in that skill, but without a DM it cannot be enforced, and no DC can really be set either.

It may work at times, when both parties are reasonable. But to me it just feels mechanical and wierd.

[VonVonnen]

The bluff skill is DC-based, with DCs based on the outrageousness of that what you're saying.
 
For instance:
 
"I'm actually Helm in disguise." would have a very high DC.
"My name is Adahn." wouldn't have a very high DC.
 
It's not supposed to be compared to a lie-detector skill, as that would completely destroy the most important aspect of bluffing, being how big of a bluff you are making.
 
 
I personally enjoy seeing RP where, when a PC bluffs, he does so taking the size of the bluff as well as his bluff skill into account, makes a nice comparison out of that, and then, when he thinks it'd probably be too difficult to pull off, toss in a few emotes about how sweaty the character suddenly looks, or that his eyes are darting back and forth or something like that.
 
Wether or not the PC being lied to would be able to detect the lie is then up to him: does he pick up on the sweaty eye-darting bit and considers it to be because he's lying, or is it just because a goblin could jump out any moment in the volcanic cavern they're currently both in?

[Letsplayforfun]

The issue with those skills is that either you are a good spokesman in real life, and then you can play either a good or bad skilled pc, but if you are a mediocre spokesman in real life, you need the rolls so that your pc actually is good even if what you say sucks.

So usually, i let people roll to me.

That being said, i don't like rolling much when it breaks the flow of things, especially if people start to argue about the DC or whatnot. In that case, you can be sure i won't bother to comply ;)

It's really on a case by case basis, really.

[TheMacPanther]

I'd say bluff v. bluff just for simplicity sake

[lovethesuit]

Well that depends.

Is your name Adahn?

[VonVonnen]

The issue with those skills is that either you are a good spokesman in real life, and then you can play either a good or bad skilled pc, but if you are a mediocre spokesman in real life, you need the rolls so that your pc actually is good even if what you say sucks.

 
All this points out is that you'd rather play through a vague game mechanic rather than actually doing good RP. If everyone thought this way, the server would suck. No offense.

[Letsplayforfun]

We're loosing track of the OP, but nevermind.

I'll rephrase for those who skim over posts without reading them. If a 15 years old teenager plays a lvl7 bard, there's little chance that he's rethorically up to the job. In those kind of cases, i don't mind him rolling a dice to persuade/bluff me.

If you prefer me to tell people they suck at playing bards and should stick to low education/socially deficient PCs, i could, but i -usually- don't treat people that way.

This game is meant for people to get to 'be' what they cannot 'be' IRL That's what RP is. So don't give me the traditionnal elistist answer of 'omg, he sometimes accepts dice rolls!" The machine is 'rolling' for you 99% of the time, you know.


Back on the OP: i've no opinion on that. ;)

[St Juste]

I'm against elitist position, I fear none of us would play effectively a mage with Int 16 (one person that can master without problem 4 language), so some degree of dice rolling may be tollerated.

 I'm against the dice rule position too, I want to play my pc so some degree of freedom must be left, if I don't trust you, no roll can make me change idea, I may roleplay a mild reaction *raise a brow* skipping my first choice yell LIAR , the skill bluff is not the spell charme , my 2 cents.

[Paha]

I'm sorry, but until I am forced to acknowledge a roll, if your playing does not support your skill amount, no matter how you roll infront of me, I won't go with it.

I want to be persuaded/bluffed with playing, not by numbers.

After that's said, bluff vs bluff doesn't sound bad. But spot or such as well, since lousy bluff roll could show somekind awkward moving, twitching eyebrows or what ever.

[ScottyB]

It's always been the official DM stance that unless compelled by a DM, dice rolls are entirely consensual. Whether you want to acknowledge a roll or not is entirely up to you. The only non-DM cases I have ever rolled a skill for have been to show off my skill investment rather than to convince someone that I should succeed, and I think that's a far better route to take.

That said: since EFUSS can be an easy way to dump 10 points into something, I'm not sure this is a good idea. People who don't know they have a choice, or frequently allow people to roll against them, will be at a disadvantage. BioWare skills shouldn't be 'countered' by EFUSS skills the rate of investment and quality of choices are rather different. They are different systems.