Stealing

[Dr Dragon]

Thieving is a choatic act. if you do it fair play. Get the paladin to loot.

Don't whinge is you trust the "shady guy you've never met before" or the "nutball barb" not to decide they want/need it more and therefore aren't even going to share it with you.

If you cry about fair looting, go with a team who you can trust IC.

I have no issue with people "stealing" if you want to check all the takes and emote "takes nothing just looks".

I disagree that stealing is a chaotic act TBH.

For example a evil baron passes a tax just for the sake of fattening his own pocket and guards sworn loyalty to him collect this tax? Is that stealing? Hell yea is that chaotic? No

A person feels mistreated/insulted by the party and feels that he deserves more loot then these fools so decides to indirectly get back at them by taking/her fair share. I can easily see a worshiper of hoar doing that as a form of ironic punishment.

An LG person needs supplies in a war against Orcs so he leads a force of soldiers to slay the Orcs and take their weapons/supplies. Is that stealing? Yea!

Stealing is neither a chaotic thing nor evil thing in my OP.

[Equinox]

The doc has spoken. Or rather, backed my opinions.

This conversation is done.

[Luke Danger]

Personally, I find stealing durring a quest, especially large items that any competent adventurer could see you obviously took (IE: Full plate, Greatswords/axes, Rocket Launchers, etc.) should be emoted if you're trying to nick 'em... unless there's some reasonable reason for them NOT to see it (IE, Magic Bag, Bag of Holding, or similar).

Small things like a potion or a single gold coin are more easy to steal, and thus don't require as much emoting.

But yeah, keep it IC for this. If you steal, play fair and give them a -chance- to spot, but don't give it away. And be reasonable, don't give them a easy spot for a single gold or something that we might not even bother noticing.

And on forgetting... well, it happens. If you got chaotic points or such for it needlessly, ask the DM what they're for, then if it's a case of forgot, I'm sure it'd be reasonable to not get said points for a case of a forgetful mind (At least, OOCly. ICly is a different set of armor)

[TheWastesAreFrozen]

It's chaotic.

[Wern8]

DrD has it wrong.

Most cases of stealing are considered chaotic acts, but some cases may also be both chaotic and good/or evil. (for example... stealing food/gold from a starving man can certainly be quite an evil act)

Claiming the supplies of your enemies, especially monsters such as Orcs after defeating them is hardly stealing either, unless you killed them for the sole purpose of taking their belongings.

[Meldread]

I'm actually in a rather odd situation right now with my Banite Cleric.

On every past character I've played, when I looted, I tossed all the crap on the ground and divided it that way.  However, on my Cleric I decided to do things differently:  he collects everything and then he (and he alone) decides who gets the loot.  He claims it's based upon how well those involved performed in battle, but OOCly I've been trying to divide things fairly.  

A funny thing I've noticed:  I'm so focused on making sure people walk away with something useful, that I end up slightly screwing myself.  I even sometimes keep a few of the less useful potions or items (stuff that most people wouldn't want if it was tossed on the ground) to divide on another quest if the loot -really- sucks.

I do my best to make sure everyone walks away with something that is useful, and I hand out things based upon need by the group.  The Fighters get the bulk of the healing, the wizard gets the crappy wands to spam during combats, the invisibility potions go to those who can't cast it or who didn't some on the last quest, etc.

I actually have found that I like doing it this way better, even though I typically get less useful / good stuff.

[Thomas_Not_very_wise]

I once tried doing that Meldread.

Then I realized, I somehow ended up with more supplies than everyone else...even if I didn't do anything.

It was absolutely amazing so I stopped.

[Meldread]

I also think we might be walking into dangerous territory when it comes to alignment shifts.  Stealing is definitely chaotic, but D&D alignment is so crappy with it's black-and-white...

I mean, to give an example:  Dwarves hate goblins.  Therefore Dwarves hate Gobsquat.  So Dwarves plot to slaughter the Goblins of Gobsquat and establish Dwarfsquat.  The Goblins of Gobsquat, while evil, are peaceful and do not threaten the Colony.  Is it therefore a Chaotic Evil act to murder them based upon racial hatred?  I believe most people would say, "No."  

Yet, you're clearly killing a peaceful group because you hate them and so you can take their land and other stuff.

[Meldread]

Thomas-

Yeah, in the beginning I sometimes accidentally walked away with stuff that should have been given out.  Although that was accidental due to the way my inventory was setup.  I organized my inventory and keep the first few pages open for loot and I don't have that problem anymore.

[derfo]

things are rarely if ever as clear cut as examples aforementioned would have you to believe them to be. generalizing stealing into a certain alignment is pointless. as such, if a dm really considers an act of stealing, or anything else really, to not be true to a character's alignment i'm sure that dm will act on it as seen fit.

if your character in a position is inclined to steal then steal; get a dm if the rules dictate you should, or if unsure, then ask. why the need to overcomplicate so fucking hard?

[N/A]

Derf stole my heart. :(

[VrudashHogshurd]

lawl

[Dr Dragon]

So if a evil ruler/baron invents a tax just for the sake of making money and guards who swore loyalty to him (Lawful) Who enforce this tax and tax the peasantry would be considered chaotic for stealing? Please tell me your logic.

[Letsplayforfun]

Stealing is taking an object you have no right to. Today, being a bigger brute does not give you the right to an object. In previous times, perhaps, it was.

Your evil baron is just in that grey area. If the people he rules think his rule is legitimate, he is no thief. If they don't, he's just a thug, acting chaotically (for himself) only, but using organized ('lawful') thuggery.

But in the end, stealing is chaotic not only because it goes against what most 'laws' says, but mostly because it goes against a commonplace social respect for private property.

[BrittanyPanthas]

Such a tax is considered lawful, but evil, Dr. Dragon.  Its the right of a ruler to institute such laws.  The guards, by upholding this tax to the letter of the law are supporting tyranny.

Stealing under such circumstances is still chaotic, but may be construed as 'good' depending on what it is used for.