Luring

[Nihm]

Luring archers around corners is abuse of the AI. Plain and simple.

Don't do it.

It is not the players fault that archers run in.  If you want to take away the freedom to move behind cover when shot at, which is the natural thing to do, I'd like to hear some suggestions other than having to stand there and get feathered, or have to charge into an enemy horde and into whatever traps and spells they might have.
 
If we're not allowed to move behind something when shot at, what can we do?

[Luke Danger]

Run back enough behind said cover that the archers won't get clotheslined as the come over the corner? *shrug*

[Meldread]

-EDIT-

I had a longer post here regarding how fuzzy luring is rule wise and asked for clarification...

...then it hit me.  I knew what was being talked about.  If I am mistaken please correct me.

The AI Abuse technique in question:

Sometimes when you enter a room full of mobs, the archers agro you and the other mobs don't.  When archers agro, you run back to the group, luring the archers away while the melee's stand behind.  Obviously, the melee's would see the archers chasing the PC and should logically follow as well, but they don't.

Is that the abuse being discussed?  I was confused when I first read the post, because I've used luring and choke point techniques in the past with DM's present and even got DM XP for using such tactics in large battles...

...so I was confused.  That being said, if I am correct, isn't this an AI Bug?  Is there some way to fix it?

[FleetingHeart]

Charge them. I've yet to see a single scripted or spiced situation where charging would have resulted in obscene traps and other dangers. Rarely anything worse than a few slowing traps.

There is nothing to do for the AI though, short of making the monsters immobile turrets.

[Relinquish]

I always used to charge in the old UD gnolls quest at the river pathway. It was fun, and I got to bitch about getting the best stuff.

[Decimate_The_Weak]

Take the gnoll quest for example. It isn't logical to stand in an open field, surrounded by snarling dogs, and your party getting turned into pin cushions without using some sort of 'cover'.
 
I just don't think it should be... peak your head out abit around the corner, wait for the archers to target you, then move back. Thats abusing the AI. Running around, willing to charge - and fleeing if need be is abuse of tactics (however limited they are on NwN).

[Nihm]

Then ranged enemies should be removed, because frontliners are going to be exploited by having to charge into being surrounded whenever something shoots at them.  
 
And you're wrong about traps, there are plenty of quests that mix damage traps with ranged enemies.  Having a scout won't work either, since by this rule the average scout is going to get occasionally spotted and shot at.  He will then have to run in a straight line into the mass of enemies, or in a straight line away, being careful to not break the enemies' line of fire becaues that's an exploit.

[Gippy]

I think this has room for internal discussion amongst the DM staff.

My personal opinion is that certain quest designs encourage some sort of luring, perhaps the biggest example is the duergar quest, and I think that needs to be solved from a quest design standpoint. For example, simply placing a barrier down on the bridge will stop the crossbowmen from racing around a corner and being made into mince.

Deliberate luring, like Meldread mentions, of course is not appropriate. However some amount of luring is going to happen no matter what. In an ideal situation the AI would act and respond organically. It falls on both sides of the DM/PC line to minimize this unintentional luring.

Remember that we're all story tellers here. What sort of story are you telling when you say that the intelligent monsters ran around the corner with their bows out and got ripped to pieces because they saw you looking at them funny?

[Staring Death]

Remember that we're all story tellers here. What sort of story are you telling when you say that the intelligent monsters ran around the corner with their bows out and got ripped to pieces because they saw you looking at them funny?

So... we get to be the dumb ones?

Edit: Sorry if I sounded abrasive, it was not the intent. While I do agree that luring as Meldred explained is obvious abuse, I don't think we have to go kill ourselves just because we're shot at.

[Gippy]

SD, most people learn how to not fight in melee with bows. I am sorry you've not learned this skill. Maybe you can audition for DUERGAR CROSSBOWMEN?

[Staring Death]

SD, most people learn how to not fight in melee with bows. I am sorry you've not learned this skill. Maybe you can audition for DUERGAR CROSSBOWMEN?

To which I will propose the following:

I've seen archers switch to melee weapons once in combat, like the troglodytes fishermen. While it will not solve the issue of luring, it will solve the issue of using a bow in melee.

Another suggestion that may or may not work as I know little of the AI, use the guerilla orcs hunters whatchamacall it that fights and retreats constantly.

While I understand the AI has shortcomings, we don't have to go and die because of it.

[Universal Predator]

A 'must charge' rule is simply silly. There are smart characters. Playing them dumb is bad play. Also, not all characters are brave. Even some frontliners are cowards or not dumb enough to just charge. Besides, there are AI mobs that use luring tactics. Why cannot PCs do it?

[Caddies]

Man up and charge. If its the duergar quest being mentioned, waiting till the archers run ALL THE WAY over the bridge then AROUND the cave is just lame.

However, there are definitely some quests and DM quests etc. where a small amount of luring is going to happen regardless, and in these cases its fine. Just use common sense!

[OrchardOfMines]

There are two situations in quests I can think of where charging the archers results in stepping on obscene traps.  I've willingly charged into both rooms, and predictably, I died.  Admittedly, I don't think I would have died in either of the cases if my party had charged with me, but they were attempting to hold a position that, despite being tactically sound from a real-life point of view, would result in luring.

The two traps I'm referring to are almost always metagamed on these quests (occasionally one of them is actually spotted, thus making avoidance not metagamey), but one is difficult or impossible to spot (I have never spotted it with any character of mine, so I'm not sure).

[OrchardOfMines]

Also, charging archers is not nearly as bad a strategy as most people think.  They cite examples of lone people charging and getting mowed down as proof that it's suicide, but I can tell you if your party charges in unison, the archers don't stand a chance.