Be ruthless

[Kiaring]

A word to the wise. In the past we had discussions centering around conflict between PCs, especially in the event of a group wiping another off the face of the server after conflict that was considered incipient.

What I understood from those discussions is that it's good to look for alternatives to FD'ing a character, especially if it's one you may have reason to kill, but haven't exactly developed a lot of conflict with.

I'd like to put forth a view that this is wrong, and should not be done. You should be ruthless if your character is ruthless, and not worry about the player behind the computer, or the 'story' in the general sense. Your character is yours, his story is the one you get to tell. Players are far too jaded these days to allow others to get off, even with crippling losses, without FD. FD is just a quickslot macro away. Besides, there's the awesome defense of, "Hey, you would have just ganked me the other day!". While that might not be true 100% of the time, it certainly seems to be the norm, which brings me to this conclusion: Why refrain from FD'ing? I've certainly done so throughout my career in EfU, and I'll tell you, the sight of all those tells streaming through your screen about how 'your character was sweet' and how they 'fostered awesome conflict between different players' gets old after, well, once. I bet rearranging your recent kill's inventory into your own tastes a lot better.

I'm sorry if I come off as jaded, snide or anything like that. I just don't want other players to think that there is anything other than mostly meaningless, quick deaths waiting for them if they choose the path of 'alternatives to FD' when dealing with characters with whom they've interacted little. The same courtesy will not be afforded to you, and whoever kills you will claim that they 'had IC reason' to do so, and 'you would have come back the next day with a ganksquad in tow'. I don't mean to be negative, or detract from the server or the 'story' in any way, I just wanted to let other players know, since this has been a rude awakening for me, that people (no matter how nice they may be OOC) are not here to play with you. They're here to play their characters, and if that includes FD'ing you after a contrived five-minute-long first meeting, they will do so. Because the alternative is, of course, being ganked the next day by a horde of your allies, or ambushed from invisibility by a fully-buffed version of yourself.

To sum it up: Before last night, I always thought the story (and by this I mean something that involves ALL characters rather than just your own) was supposed to be a consideration when looming over the subdued body of an enemy. But it really isn't. The only thing that matters is your character's IC motivations.

I think most players will be in agreement with these views. If you're not, I'm sad to say I used to be on your side, but trust me, there's nothing coming but endless screens of 'hey, your character was cool :)' and 'you were a really cool enemy for me and my faction, thanks for that!' tells after you're Fugue'd (almost forgot the good old, 'if it's any consolation, I thought your character was especially awesome!') that one last time. They get old after well, once. I bet rearranging your enemy's inventory into your own never gets old, ever. Otherwise, why would people do it so much?

[Jasede]

Inara? These bastards!

[Valium Skies]

lol

[Semli]

The PvP rules are pretty lax and one is able to justify killing someone else with very little effort.  I personally don't like fighting people over nothing but inventing reasons to mug and kill your fellow players can not only make you very rich but is often a great way of attracting PCs to your faction and getting DMs to pay attention to your character.  Even in the unfortunate event that you are killed, that attention can often carry over to a new character's goals.  I highly recommend it as a way for players who are new to the server to get established.

[Kiaring]

lol

Sadly the hilarity of it only dawned on me after the fact had taken place.

You gotta laugh, otherwise this is all about the "SEA OF ANGSTY NEGATIVITY" Howland mentioned in "How to Rock my Socks Off".

[Valium Skies]

The simple fact, my friends, is that courtesy is always appreciated. It may not stop your character from getting killed and it may not place you first on the "IRC Bragging Rights" list, but it will always make your play experience more enjoyable. It won't make those deaths more enjoyable-I doubt anything will. But you'll find the game as a whole is much better for you and those you play with. If someone else is discourteous, I really doubt he's actually having as much fun and deriving as much enjoyment from the game as you might think he is.

It's lame and it's corny, but it really is true.

[Yalta]

I am going to keep on being OOC considerate even when i know it may well not be returned. I understand a lot of Kiarings post and have almost gone that way, but i just plain don't enjoy ending others stories early, so i am not going to.

[pyth]

Damn right I FD when appropriate. If my character would kill you, he's going to kill you.

To many great villains killed by taunting over the SD form of their foe, only to be smacked down ruthlessly by a 10 man gank squad mere minutes later(Rhukt anybody?).

[BrittanyPanthas]

I've always taken the attitude that being courteous to a person OOCly and making the death of a character a fun experience, is much more rewarding than FDing a person straight off with no explanation.

Now certainly not every occasion will allow for you 'not' to FD a person, but its best that if there's an option to subdual first, take it.

Taking the attitude of 'play to win' though OOCly, and ignoring all other options is one way to play the game, but I can't help but think that it won't earn people many friends OOCly, or give people good feelings over the death of a character.

[derfo]

kiangst

though recently kill and loot everyone does seem to be a pretty awesome option

[wcsherry]

I don't want to get into the specifics of what likely caused this post, but the PvP I have seen so far has been fair and courteous to date on EFU. I am sort of worried this thread will spiral into a circular PvP rant thread... but won't lock for now.

[Sternhund]

Somewhat Relevant Random Musings

I didn't do much FDing as a player, partly because I didn't have much PVP conflict in the first place. However, those few instances of PVP I usually did FD. The rivalries I held were usually political, so there wasn't much combat. One character was a coward and simply ran from all his enemies.

I encourage you guys to engage in conflict, but maybe you want to consider meaningful conflict over conflicting with someone for the sake of conflicting. And when you do conflict, maybe hold off on actually attacking one another. Put some foreplay in it. ;) Because once the blood starts spilling, it will all spiral down. This will make these milestone events like FDs more meaningful. (Disclaimer: I'm not suggesting that the conflicts Kia's character engaged in where not meaningful; especially since I never interacted with her.)

[petey512]

I generally disagree.

I think PVP is great if your simply dueling. Or really really epic if you are fighting over something important... killing people because you want their money OOCly is stupid to me. Kill people you have plot with, not a random guy who asks your help and must be level three.

[Howlando]

This is the same pattern of events that I've seen many times, and something I tried to address in my post that discusses "Good PvP Karma" posted here.

The relevant section:

PvP Karma:
"You reap what you sow" - PvP Karma is too amorphous for us to strictly enforce, but is something we like to encourage. Seeking it will make you a happier player, avoiding it (even if you don't strictly break any rules) will just lead to disappointment for all involved (yourself, your opponent, other players, and the DMs).

- Is the PvP justified?
Has the conflict between your characters reached a point where the natural progression would be PvP? Are you certain that the desire for PvP is entirely your character's, and not your feelings as a player seeping into your RP?

- Is it best to subdual, to subdual-loot, or to FD (full damage) kill?
Has the character (and player) had opportunities to avoid being FD'ed if they've lost? Is the rivalry or conflict sufficient cause that you think looting or FD'ing is justified? If the situation was reversed, and you were playing your character's opponent, would you feel the same way? Has the story progressed to a point where a FD death would be appropriate? Please note: often the answer is yes, sometimes in EFUA it's just time for FD time.

- Is the PvP fun and stylish?
Style is intangible, but should always be sought. Put some thought into it.

- Is your attitude as a player relaxed, respectful, sporting?
Are you a gracious winner, and respectful loser? Sportsmanship is important. Note that this does go both ways, even if you're the victim of PvP that you think doesn't agree with the PvP Karma Guidelines, you should still try to be gracious and respectful. Of course, feel free to come to the Dms if you have concerns.

The bottom line, is that we all play from our own perspective, and it's easy to forget about the times you're subdualed and let go vs. the few times that you lose a character to conflict that you personally think premature.

The trick is just adhere to your own code, and be gracious when you lose a character, because it's an absolute waste of time to get too bent out of shape when you lose a character.

There is a double-standard though, but it's a desirable one, and I think it applies to this situation particularly.

If you're playing some sort of raging chaotic slaving monster, that associates with slavers and murderers and has been involved in multiple incidents of violent evil action, I would say you've come closer to 'having earned' a FD from an opponent than (say) some adventurer who just happened to cross the wrong guy.

Although in EFU and EFUA both villains and heroes have an excellent shot of doing great deeds and being successful, and having long-lasting success, it is true that villains should be a little gentler with their opponents in terms of OOC courtesy and looking for other options than FD than necessarily their foes do, and I personally believe that is absolutely the way it should be.

At any rate, if you're frustrated about losing a character, the solution is not to BE RUTHLESS (which will get you nowhere, I'm afraid) but perhaps step back or try a character concept that isn't going to earn the same kind of ire/get involved in the same kind of intense, non-stop conflict.

[Foop]

Dont be rutheless,
 
PVP woythout FD can have long lasting impact on both parties let alone the relationship between them.
If everybody was always ruthless Foop would have been six feet under aswell at the moment.
I have gotten a whole lot of RP out of being given mercy rather then dead and it still affects the character. I think its great and should absolutly be considered where apropriate.
Besides there is so much you can do rather then just kill.