Cheaper, commoner ESP and Amplify pots

[Egon the Monkey]

Unlike See Invis, these don't unerringly reveal someone, and they don't even last as long. I'd like to suggest that both drop with the same regularity as Seeing potions, and ESP be made much cheaper to brew. Since it's not even a certain counter to stealth like Seeing is to Invis, the price is rather heavy.

My PC recently tried to stop a thief he could tell was in a room (items vanishing), who was about 2 feet away, in my line of sight and yet I had no way to detect without a none-too-common ESP potion and a lucky roll (15 Spot/Listen vs a buffed stealther with likely 30+ stealth is not good odds unless you have 5 minutes to search the place). If those and Amplify potions were common, it would stop stealth being "hide in plain sight" against anyone but a spotter build, as any PC could get anough detect skill for a short time to ensure an enclosed area is free of spies (unless they are utterly epic stealth powerbuilds :P).

[Caddies]

Amplify/C+C items and potions are already too common IMO. These will -certainly- never be made as common as See Invis for obvious balance concerns.

[Egon the Monkey]

That would be "anyone with spot would be then able to detect every sneaker from the other side of the map" I suppose? Hm. Write it off as another dumb idea.

I suppose what I was really after is something like Dust of Appearance, that applies a big Hide penalty to everything in a small area. Yes, you can swap to a torch/cast Light, use a cheap Wisdom potion but by that point they're clear and you've lost them. Something that can be fired off on suspicion of a spy in the immediate area but won't stop someone following you at a distance.

[TheWastesAreFrozen]

Invest points in the detection skills, just as sneakers invest all of their points and three feats into stealth.

Sorry, but if you don't want to invest in seeing stealthy people then you won't. Just to make it clear, a person typically needs 25-30 stealth scores to be safe from detection by a person without any effort into finding them, let alone those people that do invest.

[Egon the Monkey]

I actually do have detection on this PC, Ahmed's been the only recent guy of mine who hasn't. The point isn't to be able to detect all stealthers all the time (I had a rogue who used to do that and point them out by glaring), but to be able to see someone who you're aware of enough to chug a potion/use a device but still is still somehow stealthed. For example someone's pointing them out. Or items are vanishing, boxes are opening...

[Dr Dragon]

Im a fan of stealth but when someone uses it to rob stuff when they are 2 ft away or are right next to you eavesdropping a whispered conversation the it is lame. Im sorry but their is reconiscance and there is just lame. I completely agree with Egon the redic overpowered use of stealth is pure insanity.

[derfo]

i strongly disagree with cheap or more common esp or amplify pots, since that would probably completely destroy all the intrigue and subtle things i never dip into

[TheWastesAreFrozen]

People stealing things should be contacting DMs first if it's in an NPC area if I remember correctly and that is a totally separate issue. Stealth is considered a magical ability, as it should be, and if you can't spot someone within whisper range then maybe you should actually put effort into being able to and not expect to counter something that requires a full build focused on it with nothing on your own part.

[Relinquish]

I had a bard that tried to sell amplify potions, no takers. It's not like they're expensive at like 50 gold each.

[Dr Dragon]

The idea that stealth is magical is insane no offense but it is an insult to every person RL trained in stealth and there are plenty of them.  Im tempted to find someone from the Army who is an RL stealther and ask if he can use his stealth to be standing right next to someone while they are whispering without being noticed.

[Ommadawn]

Dr D, this is not real life, it's a game set in a fantasy world where the stealth is a magical ability. Unless a DM chimes in with an official statement otherwise, I really don't see a problem with the current status. When you sneak, no matter how high your scores, you are at risk of being seen and caught, often with dire consequences. That risk is a good counterbalance to the effort needed to be a good sneaker.

[FleetingHeart]

The idea that stealth is magical is insane no offense but it is an insult to every person RL trained in stealth and there are plenty of them. Im tempted to find someone from the Army who is an RL stealther and ask if he can use his stealth to be standing right next to someone while they are whispering without being noticed.

Depending on the situations. Yes. Yes they can do exactly that. The 'stealthers' in military organizations are frighteningly good at what they do and are capable of remaining perfectly hidden in all sorts of conditions. In a field they could literally be close enough to untie your shoes without you seeing them.
 
However, it's built into the very class description of rogues that as they advance they are capable of pulling off near magical feats. Stealth is fine. It's a magical world. You can't always make direct and meaningful correlations between a GAME and real life.

[Caddies]

For reference, stealth is a semi-magical ability.

If people are stealing stuff in stealth mode, they need to have a DM. Its considered a hostile action.

[derfo]

standing next to whispering people, the prime military function

also:

I had a bard that tried to sell amplify potions, no takers. It's not like they're expensive at like 50 gold each.

why does it need to get any more common than this?

[SkillFocuspwn]

if amplify is 50 gold from a player then there is no problem at all. It is crazy that 2 pots can instantly destroy most sneakers and make them worry their socks off.