KNock

[Thomas_Not_very_wise]

This spell is horribly broken.

I suggest we revamp it and allow it to give players a +10 to open lock and pick pocket skillz.

[Blake the Boar]

Pick Pocket? "*chants some arcane words* knock knock. Who's there? A thief who came to rob you without being noticed"

[BrittanyPanthas]

Disagree on Pickpocket.

+10 to Open Lock does sound reasonable though.

[TheWastesAreFrozen]

I disagree. Wizards can already cross-class these points to extreme amounts and with this spell they would outclass rogues with ease.

No

[Drakill Tannan]

Well, from what i've seen the spell is nearly useless. 90% of the locks i've encountered need a specific key, so what's the point?

[PlayaCharacter]

I'd settle for even a 5% chance to open any door. As is, the spell is completely useless. I remember there being exactly one door in the UD where this spell was even marginally useful, and even then, a rogue had a better chance.

Knock should be useful for non-faction doors.

[TheWastesAreFrozen]

Giving it a use is different than allowing Wizards (who already can for the most part) open any door that does not require a specific key. There are already tools to aid in lockpicking and combined with this spell adding a bonus I'd wager that a Wizard could nearly pick a DC 55+ lock with some gear aiding as well.

[Conan The Conqueror]

I'd gladly like to see an example of a wizard who can pick a DC 45 lock, let alone a DC 55 one.

[The Puzzler]

Unless it has been changed here, only a rogue can pick a DC 35+ lock.

[TheWastesAreFrozen]

I'd gladly like to see an example of a wizard who can pick a DC 45 lock, let alone a DC 55 one.

Well, since we recently had a wizard picking DC 40 locks with tools, another 10 with the Knock spell as suggested would put them at 50. It's not really that amazing with the amount of loot out there that can provide a bonus.

[Semli]

I believe an unspoken worry may be that actually making Knock useful would devalue the entire Lockpicking skill entirely. Even in the case it allows one to open a few chests or a locked door, one has to burn a spellslot to accomplish this (one that could be used for the far more useful spell like Blur, Invisibility, or Bulls). Someone who actually invested in lock picking can easily and far more cheaply open up all the locks in their path or on a QA without expending any of their potential.

In the case of higher end locks where few if any high level rogues could ever hope to open it, perhaps they could be flagged so Knock doesn't simply win out in this rare case where it is actually more useful.

[Egon the Monkey]

Yeah, Ahmed used to crack DC 30-40 ones too. 5 points at L7 +3 from gloves (easy to get) +2 DEX +2 from Grace +1 from a Toolbelt, +20 = 33. Add in any other loot you've got and a set of tools and you can reach 40.

On a sidenote, the Chicken familiar has Knock, despite it being essentially useless since it only seems to work on bashable doors.

ANY PC can open a lock if they make the check. the DC limit is for disarming traps.

If Knock was changed to a 3 round +10 bonus, it'd be less useful than its original implementation, but allow cracking of 1-2 doors or chests. The *point* of a wizard is that their large spell list allows them to do a lot df stuff better than anyone else for a short period of time *if* they prepare for it. Knock is a sweet spell, BUT for any given door you need TWO knock spells, one to get in, one to get out. A lockpicker can bust locks all day long.

[Drakill Tannan]

How about this:

Change knock so it may work on an AoE or a single lock, if it's on a single lock it will -always- unlock it unless it requires an specific key (meaning if a rogue can unlock it, so can the spell, not only bashable doors) if cast in an AoE then there is a check to open all locks

[FleetingHeart]

Given that the spell is supposed to open any non magical lock automatically, I don't see why 10 points in pick lock is so overpowered. I'd suggest it be more like 50.

As has been pointed out, this in now way replaces a good rogue for picking locks. A spell slot/wand/scroll has to be burned, all very expensive in their own way, in order to accomplish what most rogues could do repeatedly and for free.

The spell should be useful. And it should be an automatic success on any non magically guarded lock.

[derfo]

short duration of +open lock, disable/set trap equal to caster level