Review: Disabled Parties

[Underbard]

Since the new system was put in place, I haven't had a lot of opportunity to quest, partly because I can't be here much this time of year and partly because when I do log in, the server seems to be lacking of PC's.  In my limited use of the system, the only thing I have seen as an actual plus is the fact that you can see more of the screen without having your party pics in view.  Granted, I haven't played a healer.  My biggest concern, other than the afore mentioned problems with AE, is that, because of my limited time on the server, my PC can get lost rather easily, limiting me to playing PC's that can't find their way around without the use of a lot of OOC tells etc...  Personally, I don't see where that helps immersion.  When playing a PC such as a ranger and your party gets into trouble, you OOC'ly take a wrong turn coming back from a place you have been a dozen times, you die, plain and simple, for the sake of immersion.  Even if you play a PC that maps the entire island, when a half dozen pissed off ogres are chasing you, it is unlikely that you will have time to read a map.
  Perhaps time will prove me wrong, but I don't see this as a good change for the casual, part time player.

[OrchardOfMines]

I voted Yay on this system because I have felt that immersion is increased without the party bar over on the side.  However, there are several "cons" to the new system.  Snoteye pointed out most of them, but here are two that really bother me:

-Increase in loot skimming/ninja looting/whatever you want to call it.  I have noticed that since the new system was implemented, a few players are very prone to running around like idiots hitting every storage chest, then mysteriously disappearing.  I have noticed more incidents of this in the last two weeks than in my last two years playing EfU.

-Accidental closing of quests on groups who just opened a quest.  A few times, I have been in a group where one person was left out of the quest.  That person then runs up to the placeable/NPC and tries to take the quest.  Because they are clicking too fast without reading the options, they end up cancelling the quest for the party that just took it, which is very frustrating.  Again, something that very rarely happened with the old party system.  I have not seen this happen, but with the placement of some questgivers in areas where PCs might naturally be hanging out, this could also result in people being invited into quests they don't want to be a part of, which will preclude them taking the quest later if they would like to.

[Winston Martin]

People don't metagame as much as everyone thinks they do!

Respectfully disagree. It can be difficult to get over a certain "play to win" mentality, and not being able to see mechanics seems to reduce this significantly.

Having quested and explored a great deal before and after this change I can say that the learning curve was 10min while we figured out what setally does and I greatly prefer this change. I assure you I am not merely sucking up to a slimy francophone.

[Canzah]

I've seen a lot of arguments for either or that have me convinced to a degree, but at the same time I feel it's too soon to decide. And then there's the fear I may not form more of an opinion with time rather than just get used to it.

But that aside, what comes to mind is trust. I would like to believe you do not have to remove all means of metagaming to end it. I expect the playerbase of this server to be mature enough to handle themselves. After all this is a game where we bend past the engine's limitations with our roleplay, so we should also be able to disregard the parts of the engine that are undesired and considered metagaming.

It can feel like, you know, "Make half-orc and greataxes app only because otherwise someone might go Kodax Haun on us."

[ExileStrife]

Try to keep in mind that this wasn't done as a punishment to thwart metagamers that now everyone has to endure.  This is a new server feature that has the potential to do a lot for the game and make it better by providing a unique NWN and role-playing experience.

[PlayaCharacter]

It would be very helpful to this discussion if more of the "No" votes spoke up about why they liked the old system better.

(I voted "Yes.")

[hbns]

I don't quest that much, but have done a few quests under the new system.  While I thought it did add to the 'realism'  I didn't like 2 aspects:

(1) As others mentioned, it felt very lonely to me.  I very quickly missed the feeling of 'teaming up' that simply comes from having a list of portraits at your side.  (Even though I very,very rarely use Party chat for anything)

(2) I think it is a hurdle for new players to the server.

I do appreciate the work, but it doesn't quite suit me personally.

[Disco]

I voted no.
I liked the old system. It was more smooth imo. I like being able to see the pictures of my party buddies in the upper left part of the screen, and not have to worry about who I am allied with.
I have yet to pvp in this system, but it seem to me that it is more complicated since you have to mess arround with some /set allie, or whatever it is the command is.
The new system just makes the game more complicated, it is less smooth and fun. Sure you could meta-game the location of your party members, but hey they could just as easy send you a pm of their location.
In short I feel the old system was more simple and fun.

[Semli]

Probably in line with what has already been said, after some initial getting used to I don't find the system grossly worse/better. I find the system much less informative in general, but apparently this is in line with what more people want. I guess I like all the muggy, evil shit characters not seeing my HP, but otherwise I can't really say there's a reason I personally would prefer the new system. I can't say I miss the portraits, as most people pick ones no one else playing Neverwinter Nights has seemingly.

I don't much care either way. If someone put a gun to my head though and said choose, I'd probably go with a revert back to the old system.

[SkillFocuspwn]

I said no, because I don't believe the amount of work is worth what's achieved, and what's been achieved isn't even working properly. Remove Paralysis doesn't work, traps are made crazy difficult to use in a group, I've had numerous occasions where new or low level players have got lost on quests and died, and we had absolutely no way of helping them whatsoever. I've even had one occasion where we left and ended the quest and discovered a character we'd lost had died and just been left.

[sobe-real]

It seems to be that the main gripe against it is that the lack of abusable OOC information makes the game too "serious" or difficult.

I've been around the RP server block and having played in this new, excellent system (not sucking up), it has increased my immersion and enjoyment of the game by a large amount.

I'll tell you, even I would subconciously metagame levels based on AB and Hit points shown in the party sidebar, even though on the concious level i attempted to block that info out. Now that this is gone, i'm confused why people would want to go back to the mental gymnastics of the last system.

It seems to me, and no offense whatsoever to the people who might disagree, that some people like the metagamable information, and have gotten accustomed to it, and/or don't see metagaming, or meta of this type, as a serious issue on a roleplaying server, and they are completely entitled to their opinions. Again, no offense at all to the people who disagree, but this is my observation.


And to Skillfocuspwn...

I've even had one occasion where we left and ended the quest and discovered a character we'd lost had died and just been left.

This kind of made me chuckle and wonder if you're for serious... That is the punishment for in character incompetence. You want to be able to metagame to lessen the severity of your IC mistakes? Again, if i was travelling with a group who forgot about me and left me to die, i would probably feel a bit vengeful, let alone "making war" on them, and never travel with them again.

Just my 2 cents.


I've also noticed most of the people i play with seem to be supportive of the new system, and i've only heard a handful of dissenters. I too hope the bunch of people who are in dissent explain their feelings, i'm interested and i really just want everyone to have fun.

[PlayaCharacter]

I really like sobe-real's take on this.

[Blake the Boar]

My support on sobe-real's words. Thumbs up.

[Meldread]

I must admit I am rather surprised at the large number of people who voted nay.  Based upon my play experience in game the change has gained varying amounts of praise.  Of course, one individuals experiences cannot be indicative of the entire server.

However, I have spoken to a few people on IRC who claim to have voted no, and it seems that at least some of the nay votes are coming from people who haven't really tried the system.  That certainly is not true for all, and I am not certain what percentage of the vote it makes up.

I think those that voted nay, and have not actually played through five to eight quests under the new system should do so... then come back and give us their opinion.  I know when the changes were introduced there were a large number of people who ranged from skeptical (myself) to verging on hatred of the change... but again, based upon my play experiences virtually everyone has come around to either neutral or in favor of the new system.

So... just give it a shot!

[Disco]

Why do we play? To have fun.
Imo the old system was easy and straight forward(maybe becourse it is what we have been using for the past many years)

The new system is in my view complicated and therefor less fun. The more you change the game the more time you have to spend understanding it. All I want to do is play, not read about all the fancy new voice commands.
The changes aint horrible or anything, but I still feel the old system was more smooth and therefore easy to use, wich translate into more fun.