Suggested Improvements on the New Quest / Party System

[Dr Dragon]

I love the new system after doing a DM event I can vouch that this system is awesome.

[Professor Death]

Great suggestions here overall, with a special second to the use of the quest tool to view who is on the quest as well as the ability to add/remove people.  This would hugely cut down on the:

"//ok, everyone got it?"  messages

This would also allow for the "leader" to quickly review the list and add/delete anyone who was forgotten or inadvertantly added.

I would also like to suggest a new one if no one else has already done it:  make the tool transferrable in case one person needs to log or whatever.  In effect, this would be like the old "transfer leadership" function.  Look at it like the person holding the doll was in charge of the "commission papers" for the mission.  A number of other quests I've seen require that the person who turns in the quest have some item in their possession - this would be similar and would cut down on potential griefing - someone who runs ahead and turns the quest in, gets the reward, and bails on everyone else.  In the old system, at least you had SOME idea of who screwed you because you knew where everyone was at - now you would have almost no idea of who raced ahead to turn a quest in.

Count me as one who really likes the new system. Like Beggar, however, I've got my issues with the way it's implemented.

The new system is great insofar as it prevents the involuntary metagaming that occurs when you party up with someone. The problem is that the convenient and easy system we had for managing party affairs has been replaced by something far less intuitive, adding a learning curve to any new player who wants to check the place out. I agree with Beggar to that extent, but I think the new system can be patched up and made as easy to use as the original party system.

My thoughts are as follows:

1. Only one person should be in charge of managing the party. The process should be completely invisible to the other questers. An "Add/Remove" tool should allow the party leader to see the current party in a numbered conversation list, remove someone on that list by selecting the corresponding number, and add a player to the list by clicking on them with the tool.

Unless I'm missing something, this system would leave all of the OOC considerations to the party leader. Once the quest was started, the party leader would only have to add anyone not on the list, or remove people accidentally added by proximity.

2. Quests should be given a third completion option. Instead of "You have completed the quest" or "You have abandoned the quest" there should also be an option for "You have been removed from the quest by the party leader." This way, players who are kicked from a quest before it begins for IC reasons (or because they were added by mistake) don't have to wait for a reset to take the same quest with another party.

3. Extend the XP award to include everyone within fog range. Fog range is the default distance between a PC and the line of fog at the end of their screen. AFAIK, this is also the range beyond which the AI will not respond to attack (wild orc shamans notwithstanding). This prevents PCs from exploiting the AI with bows and crossbows, but still includes them in the fight.

Am I missing anything?

[Mort]

Yes. I'll modify the tool so if you use it on yourself. It will prompt a list of everyone who has it as well as an option to remove these characters from the quest.

If the quest is not started, the removal will not lead to the removed PC to not be able to do the quest anymore (rather he can definitely start it at a later time).

If the quest has been started, the removal will lead to a quest failure for the removed PC.

[Mort]

As for the concerns toward traps. Traps can still be flagged and will be shown to everyone when flagged. That's a non-issue.

But if you use traps, yes, then your friends can no longer dance over them. I think that's a +.

As for animal-empathy, it only fails when someone attacks an animal prior to it being empathi'ed, it will keep on attacking whoever attacked it. (This makes sense as well). I think that's a + too!

[FleetingHeart]

But if you use traps, yes, then your friends can no longer dance over them. I think that's a +.

Only a plus if it means mobs can trip their own traps too :-(
 
Given that PCs have very little control over their traps (square of rather large area), I don't see this as much benefit. All it means is that whomever is laying them has to constantly pick up what he layed down if they don't get tripped by a mob. Otherwise he risks harming his own party.
 
Would there be any way that they could be changed to only effect Hostile PCs and NPCs? Rather than everyone?
 
 
Also, as a side effect of all of this no party system thing... I have noticed some other odd behavior. For instance, a healing character can effectively stay out of combat and keep massive bandage heals going on whomever they wish with no penalty. Sure, it is a slow heal, but it effectively gives the receiving character +1 regeneration per round. Or am I mistaken and bandage healing breaks on damage received?

[Mort]

I could... Traps are rarely used anyway and this would require me to modify the script of 30+ traps. Not that it can't be done but it's just long.

Ah. You mean- not being consider in battle if you are not being attacked and being able to heal at full strength? That's a nice +, I admit.

[Snoteye]

Would there be any way that they could be changed to only effect Hostile PCs and NPCs? Rather than everyone?

If possible, not for standard traps.

I have noticed some other odd behavior. For instance, a healing character can effectively stay out of combat and keep massive bandage heals going on whomever they wish with no penalty. Sure, it is a slow heal, but it effectively gives the receiving character +1 regeneration per round. Or am I mistaken and bandage healing breaks on damage received?

You are not. You say you have noticed -- does that mean you have seen people do this? I'm curious because, while it is technically true, I thought applying them like this would still add the +10 penalty (not that it isn't easil overcome by a dedicated healer).

[Mort]

It is possible, snot-eye.

[Garem]

Pertaining to AE, auto-attack is a bitch. I think that's what the person was referring to when it was brought up. Learning to control Auto-Attacks, especially around animals being AE'd takes some time and even then it isn't ever a sure thing.

As for the quest tool modification and the remove-PC function-- awesome. That fixes every dilemma I can think of.

[Snoteye]

It is possible, snot-eye.

Nope, not for default traps. There is no master trap spring script.

[Mort]

Yes. BUT there is a single script for each trap. I should know, I've modified default traps before.

[Snoteye]

Yes. BUT there is a single script for each trap. I should know, I've modified default traps before.

Every single custom script adds to module size its own size plus that of the base script. There are maybe 30 unique trap scripts (one for each type for each strength) -- modifying every single one of them just to overcome this is a study in module bloat. It's insane.

[FleetingHeart]

You are not. You say you have noticed -- does that mean you have seen people do this? I'm curious because, while it is technically true, I thought applying them like this would still add the +10 penalty (not that it isn't easil overcome by a dedicated healer).

I've done it myself in fact. On my wizard, I happened to have not attacked anything for a while and had therefore cleared combat, despite the fact that my 'party' had continued to press forward.
 
I happened to have a bandage lying about and needed a small heal. I figured it was a long shot, given my already low heal skill (a whopping 2 or 3), but tried it anyway. Shocked that it worked at all, I took a quick look and saw that I did not receive a penalty.
 
So, what I can surmise, is that the penalty was based on being in combat. Since there are only three ways to enter combat (attack, be attacked, or be in a party with and on the same map as someone attacking or being attacked), and one of those is now gone, it becomes extremely easy to remain out of combat, even while tossing heals (wands, spells, or bandages).
 
Honestly, I find it a great plus, but on the other hand.... Why was there ever a penalty put in place if this is now considered ok? Certainly having someone beat on you while attempting to bandage is going to be .... difficult. But for the most part someone putting on a bandage isn't in the process of being smacked around.

[Meldread]

If that is the way bandages work now, and I am not completely sure that is the case (I will double check), then I don't see a problem with it.  It makes sense, ICly.

My last character was a wizard.  When it came to questing here is what he did:  He buffed the party fighters out the ass, jumped into extended invis, and then ran around healing people with bandages.  He kept a small herb farm and made the bandages himself, which gave him an infinite supply.  He had a HUGE healing skill.  He could heal just fine while in combat.  It was a nice way to contribute to the fight, and saved tons of lives.

I think such characters would become more appreciated in the new system, since having a dedicated healer keeping an eye on you is much more necessary than before.

I will double check to see if bandages work differently.

[ExileStrife]

We might add some kind of check to see if your target is in combat too.  Or not.