A more permanent attack for arcane spellcasters

[Lascivious]

I'm not saying that this needs to be implemented, or even that it's a good idea, but what about making the to-hit rolls (if there even are any) for the abilities/wands based off of the spellcaster's primary attribute modifier? Wizards use intel, Sorcerers use char, et cetera. The problem with using slings, crossbows, and the like to replace spell damage is not only that it's somewhat odd from a roleplaying perspective for most characters, but the fact of the matter is that you might as well be doing nothing rather than wasting ammo. If you think about it, even if you don't give the wands a to-hit roll, they're still really not all that powerful.

If you use Drakill's damage numbers, Wizards are still at the bottom of the food chain in terms of damage. Nobody is going to have just a straight 1d6 damage. Hell, nobody's even going to be as low as 1d6+3 damage. If you make the caster roll to hit, you further dampen his ability to do damage. And even if he does hit, the damage isn't that significant. This issue becomes significanty worse if you make them use their Dex bonus to hit, which any vanilla caster isn't going to have as many points in as they would their primary attribute. Furthermore, a wand isn't going to let you attack twice in a round like most classes will be able to.

This isn't going to break a class that's already broken in PvP. If a wizard/sorc doesn't have the right spells memorized for a PvP situation, they lose. This won't change that. As Drakill said, we're looking for a PvE solution, not a PvP one. Implmenting something similar to this will drastically help a Wizard in PvE without making them invincible in PvP. The exact damage and numbers are debatable, but I think I like this option on a whole a lot more than having crafter-only wands, especially if you can use fireball.

[Broken Crockery]

I think I disagree with everyone here accept talir and alyssara. There is a huge deal of rubbish here! Direct damage spells are not that effective on quests. So what? Evocation still has some excellent spells.

"Wizards are boring to play if all you do is buff people..." is the general theme of this thread from what I can see and it had an easy solution. Don't just buff people. Buff one person and use the rest of your spells (probably quite a few!) for excellent spells that can turn a battle. My four favorite evocation spells are darkness, shelgarns, cloud of bewilderment and empowered lightning bolts. Each of these spells has a huge affect on any battle and the first three stick around for awhile. I believe you could easily keep darkness or shelgarns up for nearly every encounter on even high level quests!

Having scrolls on hand as well to deal with particularily difficult enemies is also invaluable. Wiping away smug mort NPCs that gobble potions by using dispels is very enjoyable. Crushing shadowsheild is very exciting! Surely a wizard that uses no supplies or is poor is about as useful as a fighter in the same situation, that is to say not very. I think to often wizards get to high level, get poor, and find the experience boring, before quitting the PC. This is their fault not the classes!

[Drakill Tannan]

The issue here is, if you add to the dificulty of the quest you should also add to the power of the party. Using damage spells will do so, for half the quest if the wizard is a high level for it. You burn your spells before time and you sit half the quest doing nothing, like with the buffs, just that your buddies aren't buffed and it becomes more dificult for them.

I originally just wanted a rod of frost. But simply it won't help. When your average enemy has 50 life and your max damage is 5 it isn't worth it. 1d6+3 will not unbalance the quests, nor PvP. But it will be amusing to see and use, even if just for the show and you will contribute to the fight, even if a little.

[TheImpossibleDream]

Cantrip wand, 50gp, problem solved.

[Drakill Tannan]

50gp costs 25 charges, about 5 you need to make significant damage. So it's 10 gold every time you want your fighter buddy to swing his sword one less time.

If you use it for the show you'll end poor. Against anything worthwhile it simply does nothing. What's the point?

[Thomas_Not_very_wise]

Cantrip wands are incredible. They can kill Immensely powerful DM creatures, lol.

[TheImpossibleDream]

I killed a Underdark Behemoth Spider with an acid splash wand once with my goblin wizard. Not like I needed gold for anything else.

At the end of the day you're a wizard, wizard use wands and magic, if you don't have magic prepared you can't use it. If you don't have the money for wands tough. Don't like it? Should have chosen another profession, like I dunno, fighter!

[Germain]

My original view on this whole conversation was based on allowing a PC Wizard to seem a bit more magical in their attacks and such.  It has since shifted, in my opinion, to statistical numbers and debates as to the benefit of whether or not to utilize various resources already in place.

If you won't spend 50-60 gp on a cantrip wand because it is not economically viable... then play a buff bot and take your pot shot with your crossbow quietly in the rear of the group as you wish for a time when you could interact more then, "Gather around me."

[Egon the Monkey]

More drops, maybe?
If you spam cantrip wands you'll easily burn through a few a quest. Now you can spam potions because they drop on quests, low power high charge magical attack loot drops on really one quest. Now, smart regular questing groups give wand making/using classes MORE money to let them use those, but the average group doesn't.

So. How about 20-40 use cantrip items as a common drop on quests, like for basic weaponry.

Now, I've played buff mages, full on evokers who would whine about having to transmute anyone and ones in between. The trouble really is on the high end of things where quests get too long for anything but buffs to really pay off.

Now, possibly it requires a player shift to thinking of "offense mage" as a valuable support class and distinct role in ADDITION to a buff-loaded caster. I've had a lot of fun rigging to blow stuff up when my team's had other casters taking on the buffbot role. Oh and sending empowered fireballs at trolls. That was hilarious.
You know what? That's IT isn't it. RwG is RIGHT completely. If you want to play a killer mage, do it uncompromisingly and delegate buffs to some other poor schmuck.

It's still fairly dull to do nothing though. I personally really like Polymorphing and wrecking stuff for a while, but that's very dicey on a lot of quests due to the amount of dispel about.

[TheImpossibleDream]

Don't quest with the average group then. I could never see any of my characters paying a wizard more unless he was using wands like the colorspray and the like to great effect regularly in honesty!

Not to mention wizards can use common healing to keep warriors alive in battle, same goes for just about any class that isn't so useful for whatever quest you may find yourself on.

[BoganOverlord]

Argent Gish did fine in my book.  

Consider how much a careful wizard is saving on other consumables.  Your average fighter drinks his gp in a variety of stat-boosting potions, and most wizards can cast the neat ones (blur, fox's cunning, shield, endurance, endure elements of various potencies) on themselves.  50 gp for 25 charges (if that is what it still costs) is a bizarrely low amount of cash to be able to throw spells around.

I have played a handful of wizards, none of whom desperately needed cash even after kicking up bribes and keeping themselves supplied.  This suggestion doesn't seem like a necessary addition.

[ExileStrife]

I think it honestly disrupts the setting to have each and every mage constantly whipping bolts of acid and fire at the opponent.  Magic has always been "sorta rare" compared to everything else and it's good that way.