Cheaper Healing Herbs

[Lorloth]

This is actually not a "make the game easier" suggestion (though it would also result in that), but actually a class balance suggestion.

One of the stark differences between EfU and EfU:A is the availability of basic healing supplies - especially healing herbs.  The impact of this has been drastic, though not all of its impacts have been fully processed by the playerbase yet.

EfU's item distribution and economy was typified by the following:
* Little or no magical armor
* Little or no magical weaponry
* Plenty of healing supplies - especially cheap healing herbs that could provide full heals post combat

Now, in a low-magic low-level environment (excluding consumables for a moment), a barbarian is going to beat a fighter in a head-to-head engagement more often than not (I've run the numbers on this...).  Add to that EfU's rules that made (especially pure) barbarians more powerful and the class was simply superior for dueling (much less so for group engagement).  You had a higher damage output, a deeper hp pool, and the lack of magical gear meant that hp and damage (generally) mattered more than AC.  EfU, as a result, saw a lot of high-CON, high-STR 2H-wielding 'meatshields' rather than 1H-and-shield 'tanks'.  Bastard swords were popular as a midpoint.  Paladins could also manage their own unique sort of midpoint.

In PvE, where a quest (scripted or DM) is going to cause far more damage to a party than it has hit points over the course of the adventure, the real test is not hp pool (which matters more for the single fight), but damage mitigation and healing.  For EfU, there was a balance between the tank who could mitigate damage but who would have a longer combat (and take more damage over its course) and the meatshield that would obliterate his enemies while taking damage in return.

EfU:A has a very similar setup overall except that healing supplies are far far FAR rarer.  In particular, the scarcity of gold combined with the increased expense of healing herbs (in particular) means that their use is exceedingly rare where it was once exceedingly common.

The mechanics consequence of that change is that builds which are based upon damage output and hp pool rather than damage mitigation are frankly not providing value added to many questing parties.  Healing supplies are so scarce that finding healing supplies is one of the primary goals of any outing.  Without cheap healing herbs to provide a way to even the field, a party member who expends more magical healing supplies by virtue of their low AC than the party gets back in healing supplies found is eventually going to be seen as a drag on the party.  If their damage output is not so impressive as to outweigh this concern, they may not be invited on future trips.

Though recognition of this change and its impact has been slow to develop, I am now starting to see people at least come to terms with the idea that a particular barbarian or other 2H-wielder is simply sapping healing supplies with very little value added.

I see this as an inevitable development of the current item availability.  I do not, however, see it as a positive one.

This change hasn't been fully processed by the playerbase yet, but I'd project that the future would see fewer barbarians and fewer 2H builds in general - likely caused by fewer of them being invited on quests.  This may be by design, but I'm going to guess that it's not.

My own suggestion would be to make healing herbs vastly more available, whether by reducing their cost, improving the availability of coin, or some combination.

The benefit of the healing herbs is that they're almost wholly useless DURING a combat thanks to how you've scripted them.  This means that their ubiquity does not affect the balance between High AC/low hp pool and Low AC/high hp pool builds inside a combat.  It only eliminates the difference outside of the combat when considering the drain on healing supplies over the course of an adventure.

Mind you, this would also affect overall game balance, since the current scarcity of healing is proving to be the real limit on party progression through dungeons far more often than the capability of the party.  I'd expect that you'd want to look pretty hard at the potential impacts of such a change before you considered it.

Nevertheless, I'll throw it out there.

[Lorloth]

Actually, come to think of it... increasing the availability of coin as a solution is a bad idea.... since one of the beauties of the new EfU:A system is that coin's scarcity has reduced the production of consumables.  We're not awash in Hold Person wands.

Looking over it, I think the clearly superior solution is to just make the healing herbs very very cheap.  They need to be cheap enough that the member of the party with the healing skill doesn't mind burning a stack of them over an adventure to keep someone else standing rather than themself.

[Egon the Monkey]

I bought a load for 12 each yesterday on Labur, and his appraise is 0. I think the price was dropped. 20 gold or so each was mad. I'd say 7-10 is about right, with gold so much lower on EfU:A. With high heal they can do a LOT if you have the time to apply them. They should be cheap enough to be effective, but not so cheap that you can just spam them with a low healskill.

Also, I consider them like potions. You bring your own. Everyone should carry herbs and just pass them to a healer when they need it, rather than making it a gold and weight drain on the healer PC. 0.5lbs a pack stacks up. That's why I like tanks that carry a lot and hand me them.

I always say I'll apply herbs if given them, but I only use them on others if they have no or little healing of their own. On old EfU there was enough gold that Egon used to carry 10-12 packs and it was the weight that was the issue.

[Hammerfist0]

*cough*Don't make gold more common, please*cough*

[Joe Desu]

What if the focus should be on people creating herbs and starting a PC market for it instead of an NPC market?
I am not sure where EFUA is regarding herbalism, but this seems to be a more interesting path.

[Lorloth]

A potentially valid (and more interesting) solution, Joe Desu.

Regardless, I think it would improve the class/build balance for them to become more available.

It would also address the key reason why parties are finding it difficult to progress in module content right now.

[Howlando]

They are 10 GP and have been for a while, two-handed melee characters have never in the history of EFU had a questing edge over shield-sword tanks (in my opinion), and PCs being able to grow and make their own herbs is definitely one of the key things on the agenda.

[Meldread]

I agree with Lorloth's original post.  A lack of healing is a serious issue.  My cleric when he goes questing, does no buffing at all.  He memorizes restores, cures and healing - that's it.  He then spends the entire combat watching everyone's health bars and runs up to heal when necessary.  He uses a sling and stands far in the back to assist in his ability to do this.

My two requests would be:

1.  Get the herbalism system working so we can make our own herbs.

2.  Put in an NPC that sells the "big healing kits" - like Bucket Of Health - so we can buy them.  Or better, make them.

That's what I want. :p

I'm regretting taking the brew potion feat and debating on if I should take the craft wand feat - no one can afford them.  I'd ask that the price of bottles drop to 1gp each instead of 5gp.  Ten cure moderate wound potions - which will mostly be consumed in the span of a quest an a half by a frontliner - costs roughly 250gp to craft.

At least making it so herbs are more readily available will help alleviate the need to potion spam.

[The Crimson Magician]

I think that the NPC's would actually charge like 5 gold, since it's so rare, and that Ymph is just a very large island, with plenty of plants, trees, and shrubs(:)).

[Dr Dragon]

I just hope DMS Dont make coins more availiable this system of it being a struggle to make coins is good because then we dont get people like John Keel Downing Heal potions and Stoneskins and truestrikes. If we make coins more availiable well go back to the land of shadow shielding and epic potions being common place.

[MrGrendel]

Barbs do seem to be most affected by this, as the class that relies most upon a hp pool as opposed to ac/avoidance. I found it ironic (for a "low magic" setting) that bandages and herbs post-combat were actually costlier to rely upon than buying small magical healing potions.
 
I also think it would be ideal if the solution were player-driven, though, and relied upon player-made healing kits. It would be even better imo if herbalism used a survival type skill, especially seeing that barbarians (and rangers and druids) would get that as a class skill, rather than as currently the non-crossclass animal empathy.
 
I still want to see little trained hamsters harvesting leaves, though... :p