Dominate Person/Monster and you

[Luke Danger]

Alright, assuming the person doesn't WANT to RP along and takes advantage of the full-PvP of the server, well, first of all, that's mechanical abuse. You're DOMINATED AND UNDER UTTER CONTROL, and last I checked, none of the low-will fighters or barbs around here practiced Ollcumancy, so if they attack you when dominated, then that's abuse of mechanics.

I would, however, suggest that a small mechanical enforcer to at the least prevent you from being shanked by the person you just dominated: The person you just dominated will react to you and your party as if they are 'Friendly', thus they -cannot- simply walk up and stab you dispite the fact that you've just dominated their will.

I think the above is good, though I haven't SEEN dominate person in action, only saw it used once in a screenie in which the person was willingly joining in the RP of it.

[Talir]

EFU:A may be a PvP and PvE oriented server. But it is also, without argument the most important part, an RP server as well. Charm Person and Dominate Person are two spells that hold significant value when it comes to the latter. Yes, you cannot expect everyone to cooperate when you cast the spell on another PC. In fact, no one enforces them to do so. Still, I sincerly believe the PCs not to go along with the spell is in a minority and it is their choice. If you go against the character (which the other player knows better, since he's the creator of it) with your commands, well, the spell will fail. You'll only have a dazed effect upon the victim then.

I will agree that I would love to see an extension of the duration, but only in an rp sense which I believe a DM/PC will be willing to allow you if all is done in good taste. Having a daze for 30 secounds is a significant disadvantage in a fight.

Regarding Dominate Person as an RP tool:

Description: The target person temporarily becomes a faithful and loyal servant of the caster.

In my eyes, this is a very powerful spell to be able to cast. As long as you can cast the spell successfully, you have a loyal servant to do your bidding. As long as you don't do something that is significantly against the character (such as jumping off bridges), you can get away with almost anything. Having trouble getting into House Sharboneth/Getting promoted? Why, cast Dominate Person upon either the Governor or the Marshall. If you succeed, why, you have a friend that would be most willing to do as you command. Of course you should get a privileged position within Sharboneth's ranks, you are the master, are you not (for now)? Want a sixth seat on the court, specially designed for you? Want something entirely else? All you have to do is ask. It is even unlikely the victim will notice a difference afterwards, because none will claim that he or she was influenced, would they? Of course, regarding NPCs, it's entirely the DMs decision. But if you pull off something like this, is it not well worth choosing this spell at level 9? Does even a single spell of the selection at this level challenge the usefulness of this spell?

I say, keep it as it is.

[Drakill Tannan]

Pehaps Talir, and i agree of the people in the forums who would not like to RP along is a minority. But i bet there are tons of players who sipmly wouldn't. The problem being is, how can the RP be accurate?

If you cast dominate person over a PC he will be dazed for 30 seconds. While dazed he is "dominated" and has to do what you say, mind you he can't attack run or whatever, but then when the 30 seconds (wich is next to nothing) pass and he can actually be usefull to you the spell is ended and therefroe he is no longer controlled. Of cource, one could say on RP to keep them dominated, but for how long? there is no ruling so it's by players concent, but if player does not concent then what? he could agree to be dominated for the actual, mechanical duration of the spell, for one hour, untill the server resets of for 1 day/level as it should. Players will whine about others not RP as "they should" and that be a nightmare for the DMs i imagine, since they couldn't be able to fix it. Therefore a mechanical way should be used in the spell, somehow.

A DM ruling would be needed. otherwise it can't be done.

[Talir]

It is the player's choice whether to play along or not. If he doesn't want to, he's perfectly entitled to that, and the only result of the spell would be a daze. As it is now, it works perfectly fine in my opinion. A player may decide to allow you a longer duration due to the limits of the spell.

[Drakill Tannan]

It will just end into a bunch of players whining that the others "did not go along as they should" or "not along as they wanted" sicce from my experience a player will play along untill the point he is going to lose. That of cource if most PCs were level 9 wizard/sorceres. Mehcanically the spell is next to useless, and since you can't rely on players to act as you think they should it has also very, very limited RP oportunities.

I can see how it could be made usefull though, mechancally in quests you could dominate a monster NPC and if it had a dialogue you could make it give you information, or activate a scripted "something" that could give you advantage, reveal a hidden passage, etc. But a duration of less than 30 seconds is unlikely to be enough for a dialogue and RP. So the duration would have to be incresed. I think this would be an awsome adition to the module.

I would never use it on a player though, less this player is a veteran RPer, a DM or a DM controlled NPC.

[Howlando]

This thread is a little annoying to me.

The original post and suggestion is fine, and worth consideration.

The length of some of the responses is silly, it would be helpful if people kept threads in this forum on topic and concisely written.

The idea that wizards have some kind of disadvantage compared to other classes because we consider Hold Person/Hold Monster to be a mind affecting spell and thus blockable by a level 1 counter is just laughable to me. By all means think what you want, I am fully confident that in the hands of a skillful player wizards can be the deadliest and most dangerous of opponents.

To further elucidate, our PvP balance philosophy tends to be that pretty much everything deserves some kind of counter (and yes protection from law/chaos/neutrality exists and is around). Even with potions I think the more experienced players understand the importance of a high will save, but with Hold spells being able to be cast with DCs in the upper 20s fairly easily it is indeed important for there to be fairly available potion counters.

I also strongly disagree that "It will just end into a bunch of players whining that the others "did not go along as they should" or "not along as they wanted" sicce from my experience a player will play along untill the point he is going to lose." is true. I'm not sure what your experience has been, having played here for so short a time Drakkil, but I think our veteran playerbase is very mature and that if we made a DM ruling on this subject the overwhelming majority of players would play along. No doubt as an open server we have our share of complainers and players with poor attitudes but I think people should give credit where credit is due.

As for whether we'll make any changes to the spell, or clarify its appropriate use, that can be discussed internally.

[derfo]

i thiNK DOMINATE PERSON IS BADAzz

[Dash]

sick contribution derf