Animal Hunting Skills

[Garem]

I like the idea behind the change to animal skinning, but a few things concern me.

Heal is already a very amazing skill to have. This makes it even better. And why are clerics the bomb-diggity at animal skinning, since 90% of clerics have amazing heal skill? They can't even use most combat blades, but they can wield a skinning knife with the greatest skill around! Warriors of all kinds without any heal though, who carve things up daily, don't have a clue, sadly. Not so much a suggestion, just something to ponder. Maybe someone else has a better idea on balance.

Not everybody whose character should be able to skin animals proficiently will take heal. Almost all, but not all. Rangers and druids come to mind-- perhaps, in the case that Animal Empathy is HIGHER than heal, it could be used instead?

[Mort]

A combined Heal + Lore score + Dexterity, maybe.

Heal is knowledge of anatomy, surgery, etc. It is a useful skill to have yet so are many other skills.

Mind you, you can still attempt to skin animals with item modifiers. Just if you want to have pelts of really high quality, a really good surgeon comes to mind.

[Egon the Monkey]

I'd suggest make it based on Heal + Animal Empathy or Ranger Levels. Rangers IMO should make the best hunters with their wilds survival knowledge and tracking skills.

[Drakill Tannan]

IMO it should be craft armor and maybe gain a bonus from healing and dexterity. It could start giving the crafting feats a use.

[Mort]

I wouldn't want to use Craft Armor for that.

Why should animal empathy benefit? I know how animal feel and think so I know how to surgically cut their skins off? <_< If you enjoy skinning animals for gold, you probably don't have a lot of empathy/sympathy for them.

Rangers have enough bonus as is. They are the best trackers, hunters, wanderers... they will still remain the best hunters in the wild, but if they want to skin some nice pelts, they will invest in heal.

[VanillaPudding]

I think a combination of dexterity and heal would be good, personally.

[Letsplayforfun]

DEX bonus+ ranger/ druid lvl+average(heal, craft armor).

Something like that.

[Oskar Maxon]

Heal absolutely makes the most sense. The fighter who is good at "chopping" things with his greatsword probably could remove the skin from the body - in parts!

[SkillFocuspwn]

I really don't get why Ranger or Druid levels would help! Living alongside nature will not let you know the grisly details of cutting an animals skin off well!

Heal, Lore and Dexterity sounds good! Maybe with Lore capped somehow so that Bards and Wizards don't just rule the school.

[The Beggar]

I agree with removal of heal as the core score. Heal is hit with so many other skills right now, it makes it an almost mandatory skill to have, and one that has become increasingly powerful.

Heal
- use kits to heal, remove disease, poison
- herb lore
- creation of herb related items (very powerful)
- specialty rolls for surgery, transplants, anything dealing with health, etc.

Adding another nice perk to the Heal score IMO just makes it more of a mandatory, and will end up diluting the game environment becuase everyone will have it.

We don't bother using Craft Weapon, or Craft Armor, and no one is taking Craft Trap now that we are no longer in the underdark and it has less meaning (less engineering score items in game now). Giving those skills a use would push for more diverse and specialized PCs, making PCs interact more often for specialized skills and goods, which promotes more RP.

Could you review the options again Mort?

[Garem]

My point regarding clerics and meleers is that clerics don't cut anything up at all! It made more sense for fighters, barbs, rangers, etc. although I do not think it necessarily makes any MORE sense. Hell, I'd say that if anyone knows anatomy best it would be rogue classes due to sneak attacks on anything that has vital organs.

Since it's being brought up, I think this is actually a pretty good opportunity to open up the unused Craft (whatever) skills.

Outdoorsman - Craft Weapon
Seamanship - Craft Armor
Engineering - Craft Trap

Three skills that would be extremely helpful if implemented into EfUA.

I digress. If someone wants to give this some serious thought, it should probably be given its own thread so as to keep from derailing this perfectly fine discussion.

The point of the original post is that Heal should maybe not be the only means of learning this ability. It's definately a good choice, and I don't mean to imply that it's not. I just wanted to open discussion for other options.

Oh, and Mort, you might make a special note on the Announcement that, unlike other subskills like alchemy and herbalism, this isn't based on skill ranks but total skill!

Added: "[Heal being so important]... will end up diluting the game environment becuase everyone will have it." -TehBegz

Yes, I wanted to stress that in the OP but didn't know quite how to word it and dropped it. I think that you definately raised a strong point there.

[Caddies]

Heal = Anatomy knowledge, so I don't see why it should be changed. Maybe a Dexterity modifier added, to represent the fine motor skills required to skin a quality pelt, but honestly it works great as originally implemented if you ask me.

[Mort]

Probably why I never invested a point in heal with none of my characters ever.

[Caddies]

Me either. <_<

BTW Garem, I don't think Heal skill will become quite as overpowered as you seem to believe it will be.

[Garem]

I think it already is powerful, not that it will become. Overpowered is an ambiguous word. In the sense that it is probably TOO powerful with this change, then yes, it's overpowered. In that it's broken and demands change, no.