Toughen Trogs

[Thomas_Not_very_wise]

Compared to the UD trog quest, and the reward ratio, this quest could use some beefing.

Maybe some more shamans, crossbowmen...a few traps?

[MyraTorrens]

This quest seems on par with the Underdark trogs quest for difficulty, but the old trogs quest was still pretty easy with any reasonably sized group.  I've had this one give amazing loot payoff, and I've had it give very underwhelming loot payoff.

One of the things that may make this one seem a lot easier with larger groups is that nearly all of the combat takes place in large open areas where everybody can get into the melee.  There is no crowding up behind two people who got pinned in the front like there is on certain other quests.

I think that maybe it could use a few more spawns for the larger sized parties, or maybe the quarters could be a little more cramped so the PCs can't just surround the trogs on all sides and destroy them.  When taking this quest with only three people, it feels a little more challenging than when you rush an army through the QA.

The Unknown Corsair's Banded Mail seems really overpowered, too.

[Efu_Executioner]

The old troglodyte quest had a pretty tough area of spawns to get through as well, depending upon your luck. Though with the number of people it takes to make the quest overly easy, the loot payoff doesn't guarantee everyone something decent. The old troglodyte quest at least guaranteed some gold to everyone.

[Garem]

Fine as is, imo.

[Ommadawn]

Like any quest, there's always a random element as well as the make up and preparation of the party taking the quest. Sometimes you might waltz through it, other times your party is totally owned. I've been in both situations (one was practically a total party kill). I think this quest is fine as is.

[Semli]

I've been the main tank on this quest in a weak party, only to come back later with a stronger party and get KO'd as the gimpy healer of the group.  I can't really say if it needs toughened or not, which probably means its pretty good where it's at.

[Goblin Butcher]

Trog fishers have remarkably good AI the best way to toughen this quest if any, is to add one or two more of them.

I can kinda agree that in ways this could be tougher, though sometimes you end up with as much loot as you had challenge.

I'd also add that thanks to said Trog fishers this quest blows UD trogs out of the water. I could with effortless ease (two blur potions) solo the entire trog quest with barely a scratch.

[Egon the Monkey]

Agreeing with Goblin Butcher here. Its either relatively simple but risky, or VERY nasty depending on your level of tactical skill. Old trogs, they just had warriors and shamen, and three meleers could shield-wall everything away and you'd clean it up easily. I was on it with GB when he rampaged through on Winnie doing ~90% of the work.

Here, they have Fishers, which really enhance their power. Constant *spoiler* spam, and powerful Sneak Attacks. Unless you assign meleers to target them, the sneaks destroy you. Worse, they all carry potions to counter meleeing. Lone Warriors can't be lured in either thanks to their AI. You're facing a well-equipped foe with good teamwork.

Yes, it is possible to batter through this quest. But, it's equally possible for a poor decision or even a lucky Sneak crit to REALLY screw you all up. I've had both. I mean, if you're lucky you *might* have a Blur in case a tough area, but really it comes down to tactics, and a bit of luck on the spawns (fishers REALLY hurt. But, the fish CLubs on them are amusing)

[MisterPAIN]

I could with effortless ease (two blur potions) solo the entire trog quest with barely a scratch.

Clearly this isn't the same troglodyte quest everyone else has been seeing because with -5/1 damage reduction you are still going to get plenty of high damage attacks and crits with average PC gear typically.



I think just feels easy because the beginning is quite easy in pace and seems to lack the amount of creatures that typically flood-stall everyone in combat in quests, and then the end is much more difficult.  Most likely it was intended that people get supplies in the first part and don't need to be completely equipped with everything to attempt the more difficult pockets of troglodytes.

[dragonfire9000]

Agreed with the first post, this is too easy.

Goblin Butcher Said:

Trog fishers have remarkably good AI the best way to toughen this quest if any, is to add one or two more of them.

So true! They see tanks running at them and CHUG we're toast. Hate the little buggers!

So yes, up the difficulty, or this will be farmed and redone for ever and anon just for the free xp. Adding traps would give the rogues some usefulness, adding elites would give more of a desperate feel, and adding more warriors (like, fifteen) would just plain be awesome!

And maybe, if you felt like it, make the fisher kind some kinda mean... I mean, have you ever seen those old guys with the floppy hats? The RL fisher kings of life? They could take on a level nineteen fighter any day. Awwww yeah.

[Oroborous]

These arrogant "toughen up X quest" threads just irk me. So what? You've managed to make an optimized character and suddenly think a quest is too easy? Wow, I'm impressed!

I too can make an optimized character and discover the quests too easy. I went through the trogs with a nicely optimized party, we tore the quest apart. However, I can easily see the quest is balanced quite well. The reward was good for a group of PCs without much gear, and lousy for a competent and well armed group such as ours.

The danger and balance was suitable, an unprepared group would have major trouble with it. An optimized group would find it relatively easy as long as luck doesn't turn against them.

We can probably quite readily just drop these old "quest X is too easy" arguments because frankly, the quests I've seen so far are all moderately challenging to extremely challenging. None are too easy, and quests should be balanced toward the middle and not the top--to do otherwise encourages people to make more and more "optimized" characters that ultimately look like 'min-maxed' meta-builds.

I've already seen more than one character who refused to do certain quests that aren't that difficult normally, unless someone supplied him with the spells he required to essentially go through it solo.

[wcsherry]

I've done this quest several times,

Once with an optimized group with a kitted out tank and smaller numbers that also included a buff bot (unsurprisingly this trip was the easiest).

Once with a hodge-podge of brand new characters. A few people died, but we came out just barely ahead.

Once with a group of 8 that had no real healing to speak of, and just barely survived entirely despite the group median level hovering around 4 or 5.

On the whole it is fine, considering the average PC has very little in the way of healing and other supplies.

PC's that are well equipped and that have forged strong alliances with other well stocked PC's will naturally find this quest to be easier-which I think is the case in OP's situation.

From the DM client I saw and helped prevent a total party kill two days ago...

Overall I'd say this quest is fine for now.

[Daemonic Daz]

I'd just like to give a heads up to the DM's for the wonderful job they've did on the AI on this quest. It makes the quest that much more challenging and really gives us a chance of dying!

[Lorloth]

My own experience is that this quest has been a cakewalk every time I've been on it - or at least it felt a cakewalk every time.  Sure, occassionally people die, but mostly when a squishy ends up in melee range or a front-line PC simply gets unlucky.

If you bring 8 people (which is common for how insanely popular the quest is), it's a cakewalk.

Not that that's a bad thing! :D

Personally, I think it would be more interesting to see the game world respond to our unbridled genocide of the troglodytes.

That said, we need low/mid level quests.

[illuminaughty]

I think the balance of this quest is fine. Sometimes it's a little harder, sometimes it's a little easier. It all depends on the group, and I think making it harder while it could provide a decent challenge for those who are more adept at the game or have better, more well stocked characters.. It will have the adverse effect of killing the players who are not so well stocked and barely survive on the quest as it is.

My solution is as the previous poster mentioned, more low-mid level quests! :D