Lower cost of crafted wands

[Drakill Tannan]

EDIT: Disregard the 15 charges thing, i wasn't aware the number of charges was fixed.

When talking about potions, crafting is perfectly balanced, you can sell them for half the price NPCs and still gain arround 15 gold per potion. Scrolls are more expensive, but given the fact you could craft a scroll of firebrand, ice storm or edvard's black tentacles, and that other wizards can learn that spell, it is more than fair.

Wands.. not so much. Cantrip wands are incredibly cheap, perfect, as they solve the issue of having to steal every single consumable from the new arrivals chest to do something in more than 3 encounters. But other levels are way too expensive.

Level 1 wands cost ten times what cantrip wands, they are still good for personal use, you can with some luck make a wand of missiles that has more charges and it's cheaper than the one sold by the gnome at the market, but to sell them is another thing enturely, now usually i don't complain about that, you're not supposed to get rich so easy, but as a buyer it is a pain in the ass, anyone would charge at least 650 gold to gain mere 50 gold, and since they are not crafted at current level, but at base level its too expensive to go for it.

Level 2 wands 1500 gold is a lot IMO. barely usable for personal use if you are very wealthy. Maybe your character will be able to craft 1 or 2 in this whole life span?

Level 3.. i'm not even going there. I think the cost is arroun 3000 if i remember right. I'd rather spend thouse on consumables from merchatns that wands, even for personal use.


Now that i've made my point.. my suggestions is the following:

Instead of duplicating the costs of the wands per each level, increse them by 60% or so, with an adjustment to more powerfull spells. That way we could see a wand of fox cunning wich price would be 1000 gold, afordable and much cheaper than potions. Other more powerfull spells, ghostly vissage, for example, arround 1200 gold.

But, add more XP cost to this wands. Instead of taking 5 Xp, make them take 75XP. it's still not much, but too many wands would mean a huge XP drawback. Cantrip wands though, should left as they are. Maybe increse the cost from 2Xp to 10Xp at most.

[TheImpossibleDream]

Haste wand, wand of dispel magic, both worth every single penny. Wands are fine the way they are until the day that you can shove a potion down somebody else's throat.

[Letsplayforfun]

Prices for wands and potions are just fine.

Wands are heavy on first pay, and then cheaper per use, but can't be used by everyone. They put more uses for spellcasters and UMD folks.

Potions are more expensive per unit, but you can use them anytime, even in animal form (!) and can be used by anyone. You can buy just how many you need according to your cash flow.

Some wands cost more than others of the same level, but it's because they are damn powerful in a low lvl PW.

Keep as is, imo. It's the ways merchants cheapen them, selling them for barely no profit that irks me.

Just my 2c.

[Oskar Maxon]

I don't know if that was simply a typo from your side, but you get 25 charges per wand, not 15. If you get the calculations right, this will show you that wands are cheaper per charge than potions.

[BoomdaddyBP]

Yes, wands are amazingly cheap at all levels, relatively. 25 charges (which is the set number) of whatever spell would cost less then 20 potions of its brewed version (for the levels and spells capable of such).

[Drakill Tannan]

Ah, i didn't know the number of charges was fixed. Howland had said only the costs had been modified, so i assumed io was just being lucky.

No, it wasnt a misstype, A level 5 wizard, can craft a wand with 5 + 1d20 charches in the unmodified NWN implementation. Assumeing you'd get half the roll, it would be 15 charges.

Still, 1500 gold for 25 charges of ghostly visage is too much. I may be able to craft 1 or 2 ofthem throughout my lifespan, unless players know of a secret way of gaining gold i don't know about. Or i play arround 4 hours dialy and make all the money-gibing quests over and over. I'd have to abstain of buying and/or crafting anything i woudln't sell to get to build a few of these.

[Letsplayforfun]

I do believe blur wands are not 1500 to make (though they ought to...). It's long since i crafted one though.

[Jayde Moon]

You have your prices right?  I thought a wand of GV was something more like 1080 to craft.  Could be wrong (there are 1500 gp 2d lvl wands, but I think that's for balance), but that's based off of other wandable spells that are equivalent in power to GV.

Overall, wands are a great deal vs potions.  Brew 25 potions of something and compare that price to the wand and you'll see the difference.

There may be /some/ exceptions, but instead of a broad cry to reduce the price of wands overall, finding and verifying those exceptions would serve you better.

And if your crafter can't ever earn coin to make certain wands (especially 1500 gp wands), then there's something else you may be doing wrong, tbh.

[Zazzap]

I think they're fine as it is.  1500/25 is what, 60 gold per charge?  With no AOO when you use it as well.  There's just no arguing with that.  And wands should be really rare, or else UMD will dominate the server completely and spellcasters will be unnecessary.

[Egon the Monkey]

I have played a trading/crafting wizard for months, and wands are way cheap at the price compared to potions, with the exception of offensive wands like Magic Missile. Buff wands are far, far cheaper than potions, at less weight and no AoO.

Most L2 wands are 1080, some of the offensive wands (HP and Dispel come to mind) are 1500. They are set to always be 25 charges, which is good as it allows a set price for them and not having to haggle over trade or gamble as to whether you make a profit. Most wands are worth the price. Magic Weapon, Wards, blurring, those are the stable of everyone with UMD or wand using classes.

The exceptions are few and obvious. They are:
Magic Missile
Negative Energy Ray...
Can't think of any others.
Really it's a few offensive spells where they are heavily dependent on caster level. 24 gold a shot for 2d4+2 or 2d6 (willsave fro half) dmg on one target isn't great. Fireball wands for example are expensive but they are 5d6 over an area.

The oddity is the huge price jump between the 1d4+1 dmg cantrips at 60 gold each and the 2d4+2 Missiles at almost 10 times that.

[TheImpossibleDream]

Elemental protection protects from cantrips, magic missile can only be absorbed with shield or blur.

[Drakill Tannan]

I checked the prices. When another player told me OOC they were way too expensive, he tried himself and got the same result.

Egon- So, simply every spell Gedd has in his spellbook is the "offensive" expensive kind? I tried with Ghostly visage and acording to the crafter's screpte it was 1500gold. 1080 gold is more than fair, so did i simply memorised the wrong spells?

zazzap- No, wands/scrolls/potions can NEVER replace spellcasters, on the last PW i played in this issue was discused and tested, there all crafted items are at caster level, and there were no DCs to cast from wands/scrolls. Also, this were much easier to obtain, the gold comes in hordes there. After a while, it was decided no amount of UMDers with good wands could replace a good wizard/sorcerer nor a Druid nor cleric. On EFU:A were wands are at crappy standart level even less.

-Jade So, if wands are so cheap, a wand of ghostly vissage (1500gp) should cost, per charge, no more than a potion right? Howver this is not: 1500/25 = 60gold per charge. Potions of Blur cost 60gold per charge.

I tested it with the crafter's screpte several times, i'm sure i am not wrong. Maybe it was a bug that confused it with another price? maybe Ghostly vissage costs less than 60 per charge?

And you'll agree 4d6 damage to a single target is not worth 60 gold? not for a not-very-wealthy character at least.. lowering the cost of magic misile is also something to look for, i mean, 24 charges for dealing twice as damage as a cantrip that costs 24 gold each.. half that would be good IMO.

-TheImposibleDream Yes, true, but that is onyl truly relevant to PvP in wich case you won't be throwing magic missiles, you'll be throwing an acid arrow/lighting bolt or something, for Monster NPCs it isn't really relevant, there are too many and few have protection against spells of any kind. Most times it being Ghostly vissage, wich shields against every cantrip as well.

If not on buffing spells, cost of offensive spells should be lowered, althouhg if you see the potion/Wand relation of ghostly vissage/blur you'll agree it has to be cheaper. Unless that is, it was a bug the wand displaying 1500 gold for ghostly vissage.

[Caddies]

After three and more years of EFU, I think the sharp minds of the DM crew have all the mechanics questions long since answered.

[Thomas_Not_very_wise]

Wands will always be cheaper than potions.

Ghostly visage wand, 1080 to make. This is from experience.

Lesser dispel wand, 1080 coins.

Those two spells can make or break a quest.

And a single charge is perhaps worth 1200 hundred coins if it means staying alive.

[Jayde Moon]

No, Thomas, you are WRONG.  The dude says they are 1500, they MUST be 1500.

Jeez.