Some gripes articulated

[Pestilence]

Here is my own view of the EFU:A DM factions at the Moment, this is only my opinion:

The Stygian Armada: People that some of the colony either love or despise. Their priorities: All about money, honor, and the upper hand in the colony. At the moment though, it seems they are the most powerful faction. They have a stronghold in the gobsquat and Docks. I'd like to see more conflict over areas of the ziggurat and the way House Sharboneth is controlling the land with the Stygians. I'd also want to see more evil acts in the faction and more spying to find out the secrets of the faction.

The royal House Sharboneth: Claimed rulers of the colony, they are thought as tyrants to some. Although they protect the colony, they cannot destroy many of the troubles of the colony. Right now their not in the best shape and don't see much greatness happening in the faction's strength. Their priorities: Protect the colony, do what is best (even if it is bad), and do whatever they can to stay in control.

The Order of the Three: A wild card in the ziggurat politics, they have almost heretical ways on the teaching of the three. Their priorities: Protect the colony, spread the command of the three, obtain the knowledge of the mists in the Isle. What I would like to see is more conflict with the Stygians. As the Stygians are reckless and normally would not care about others. I think that more acts of 'goodness' can be done in the faction.

[ScottyB]

I think there's an important distinction between "gray areas" and "voids." The Seekers, the Spellguard, the Watch, while all having both relatively clear agendas and some secret aspirations, were not so rigid as to be uniform. There were so many un-Seekery Seekers, plenty of Agents that... needed to be dealt with. Watchmen, both corrupt and zealotrous. Some of these characters were great because they took the basic clear concept and then took it too far, or trying to turn it to their own personal goals.

Not having played or DM'd for almost half a year, I can't comment on whether or not our current factions have any direction, or how "blurry" they are. So I'll leave it at that.

[Random_White_Guy]

Sandbox doesn't mean PCs who aren't leaders get boned.

You can do a great deal of stuff even if you aren't a "Leader" to influence DM factions, help build PC factions, etc.

One of my favorite PCs of all time was a rogue who I hired to stand around atop the Ziggurat when he was free to tell people to come by and see me at the Hanged Goblin for a Job.

He ended up being one of the coolest rogues ever. Wasn't a leader, but a great support character can make or break a faction.

[Sandstorm]

[derfo]

i think a lot of cronies are way more amusing than leaders, though i guess they're a necessity to the driving force of things

[lovethesuit]

I recognize the gripes being presented here. I can admit to having shared a few of them in the past. But right now, let me tell you, I am 100% optimistic. Not because of the DMs, not because of the PCs, but because of everybody that contributes to EfU:A. How many years has this been going on? Yet it keeps going. There are some slow periods, sure, and sometimes the awesome of the moment is a little hidden. But I think we can all take a tip from Doc Dragon, EfU:A's most active participant in the awesome. Never give up on your dreams, mix it up a little, try something new, and flash a little style where necessary.

EfU:A feels really good to me right now.

[Crod Mondoon]

Warning-Selfish Trolling to follow:

DJ Specters #3 sounds just right! Exactly what the server needs right now, 30 days of night!!

-End shameless pushing of own agendas..

[Caddies]

On factions--

More marked contention and conflict between the three major DM factions would be ideal. Although admittedly out of the loop (having not played in any of them) they seem to be vaguely competitive at the best of times, and all too often on the same side for any sort of meaningful interfactional conflict to broil up at the PC level.

On sandbox/void issue--

More PCs with an actual agenda readily accessible to other PCs and DMs would contribute alot to the health of the server. I realize not everyone is a 'leader', but you don't have to be Gippy-level dynamic to get things rolling. Its all about standing for something, having a goal, and projecting it out (even if its secretive in nature) to the rest of the populace. If you do this with even a small amount of diligence, PCs and DMs will know who you are and what your agenda is.

From there, the rest flows. PCs will know who your PC is, what he believes in, what his agenda is, if they should approach him as an enemy or ally, if they could be of assistance to their own plans, if they should be wary of him in the future, if they should assassinate him right off the bat, etc etc.

And thats just the PC side. DMs who can readily identify a PC and what his/her agenda is can factor them into the larger picture, including them in things planned for the future. For example if a DM knows your PC is a crusading Valkuran, they might throw you a plot bone in the future, when their pirate plot kicks off. If they know you're an archaeologist they can drop hints. If they know you are a professional monster hunter they could have a scared child run past screaming "Wererat! Arrrrrgh!" to tip you off that the slimey wererat PC you've been hunting might be around the area.

Look at all the most 'successful' PCs. Everyone knew what Rinaldo Montezzi or Majre Noguerya or Baldev Cole or Laramie Lathae or Berimund Theodigus or Harold Blake stood for. These PCs had agendas they pursued aggressively, thorugh the slow times and the good. People could rally to them, join them, hate them, love them, plot secretly against them, move overtly to destroy them, factor them into their plans as a possible threat or boon to the cause.

It is out of this milieu of compatible or conflicting agendas that comes all the good things we love to see on EFU, villainous or heroic. Assasinations, blackmail, extortion, confrontation, bravery, bribes, cruelty, valor, secret deals, shattered alliances, betrayal, deception, investigations, revelations.

Whether you're aiming high or low, whether you're a follower or leader, make sure you convey what your PC is all about, and don't ever stop conveying it. Make a splash, and there will be ripples!

[Letsplayforfun]

Although Kotenku's post is filled with nostalgia, i think he does bring up some valid points.

One: the isle doesn't have that feeling of OMG, i'll be stuck here forever. There's a boat out, all it takes is coins. Your PC has actually no reason to stay on Ymph. If he does, it's because Ymph is as good as anywhere else. There's no 'we can beat the server' challenge now. Even ‘lvl’ wise, it’s so easy to get to lvl8-9, it’s hardly a challenge. Too much items imo.

Two: more, EfUA is supposed to be a sand box, but things started by players were stepped on by DM factions. Two things cought my attention -and not because i cared much, but because players where whining to me about it:
- governement: players trying out to make their own, then being stepped on by Sharboneth. That cooled down many people.
- building things: there's been lots of players 'rp' clearing a place and trying to buid for a month (Delver, for ex.) and the next day the Docks is build by other folks. It’s leaving a sense of ‘why bother’.
If you want players to use the sandbox, you'll need more DMs/players ratio, and actually build what regular players are trying to build. Certainly help the great players, because they make the server better, but don't claim there's a sandbox if it's only available a few more mature/leadership/creative players. Don’t empesize RP and ‘building’ when all it ever ends in is conflict and PC death.

Three: player factions never survive the leader’s death, partly because they actually build nothing except rping relationships. If the Dwarves had a keep built, if the Lathandrites had a temple, if the Tiamats had a shrine, it would bring continuity. Sure it’s making new areas, but small ones, and i’m sure the players themselve would use the toolset to propose their own small things. And those things could be fought over, destroyed, etc. That’s my idea of a sandbox, at least. For now, the factions i see are mostly questing groups, that pretend to build things, but never really do, and when the leader dies, so does the faction.

Four: Another thing: the structure of the society reminds of ancient Rome, with patricians, citizens, slaves, yet we as players do not have the culture of respect for Higher born people, and this special atmosphere of social hierarchy is lost as soon as the next guy insults some patrician who does not have means of answering according to his rank. Only one or two are up to the rank, but the rest of patricianhoods are just.. empty, imo. Make patricianhood app only imo, with decent goals and better perks behind it. Have the Law enforcing respect to those that make it.

Five: the dominant faction is too blurry. So blurry i've found no one IG that could actually tell my PC if it was true Sharboneth allowed slavery. For various reasons: either they don’t know, or (worst) they don’t care... I'd rather have it pure evil (or pure good), so people are forced to take a stand. Pure evil would certainly be colorful and bring about a real resistance. I’ve seen retainers not knowing if they ‘can’ order Stygians about! People don’t know what to make of Sharboneth: no cult, no deeds of the leader to bring respect or disgust. They are just... here.

Six: visible intrigue between DM factions would be neat, but there's only one main faction to deal with, and the others (Stygian, Order) are just mercenaries with their own agenda, even apparently working for/with the main faction. I’m sure there is intrigue going on, but if so it’s invisible to outside folks. Maybe make a rival house come in? Or have the major military force start to want to gain independance a little? As for secret factions, well, they are secret...

Seven: exploring is tough, and getting to sites of interest is long and dangerous, which discourages exploration. On EfU, players could cross 2.5 areas and be at Mur or Claw Port, and therefore go to the fish isles and stuff. On EfUA, well, it’s wild wild wild, and when you get to that hermit site, or the barbarian camp, or to the desert,  it’s time to log off. More safe ‘sites of interest’ would certainly help making teams to head out and explore, imo. Not just camps, which are nice, but which are just on the way things.The Salty Shark inn was nice in that sense, for example, even if far off.

There’s probably more to be said, but as a whole, i understand why some players are still expecting something. That being said, i understand DMs says: don’t wait on DMs, do it yourself. The thing is, some have tried and nothing happens, so they just go back to questing routine with fun rp along the way, which is fun too, but only for so long.

[Sphagnum]

I think the reason that people seem so adamant in believing that there are no DM-faction conflict is because they do not reach the public as most heated debates are done in private or through forum interaction. There are, of course, valid reasons for this, but perhaps more can be done by players to express their opinions and their dislike/appriciation for other factions/policies/and so on. (Almost makes one miss that meddling and scrutinizing “journalist”)
 
 
Certainly a lot more can be done to draw other players into the faction’s goals and gripes, and it’s something I intend to work hard on. I personally feel that I have to defend the Order somewhat, because the Order’s members has many times expressed their intentions through fliers and speeches, which seems to me the best way to reach the majority of the player population. I do however, always appriciate advice on how to better reach the players.
 
 
As for politics and Courts, as it has been stated before, all it takes for a player to gain a position at the Court is to be the leader of a somewhat influential banner, (correct me if I’m wrong). Albeit I’m not familiar with the banner system, or claiming lands, it seems to be a very cool aspect of the server that is somewhat ignored.
It should also be noted that this is a time of summer “lull”, as people are occupied with finals, wrapping out their current school year and so on. I’ve no doubt that things will change when both DMs and players get more time on their hands.

[SkillFocuspwn]

the isle doesn't have that feeling of OMG, i'll be stuck here forever. There's a boat out, all it takes is coins. Your PC has actually no reason to stay on Ymph.

Just because being trapped was really cool on EfU, doesn't mean it's needed to make this server cool! EfU was unique in that aspect, and tbh I think going "We're trapped in the Underdark! Oh no we've escaped and now... We're trapped on an Island! :O" would be silly. Similarity to the old server does not mean success.

governement: players trying out to make their own, then being stepped on by Sharboneth. That cooled down many people.

Dude, Caddies is a PC! Oskar_Maxon is a PC! Sharboneth was -not- just NPCs coming in, it was a ruthless expansionistic in the form of Ortred massing up PC support, stamping out opposition and gaining the favour of an off-shore House! It was a massive, epic tale of politics, tasteful brilliant PvP and intrigue, with players pioneering it!

Three: player factions never survive the leader’s death, partly because they actually build nothing except rping relationships. If the Dwarves had a keep built, if the Lathandrites had a temple, if the Tiamats had a shrine, it would bring continuity

Guild Houses! A massively new part of EfUA, build specifically for this! Factions can survive, factions can flourish, and all they need is a good second in comand and the faction can survive literally flawlessly!

Only one or two are up to the rank, but the rest of patricianhoods are just.. empty, imo. Make patricianhood app only imo, with decent goals and better perks behind it. Have the Law enforcing respect to those that make it.

Patrician: Pay for prestige. How does that not invite corruption? It's meant to. It's not paying for Lordship, it's just paying for to be a higher form of citizen. It's just a way for Sharboneth to earn money, by limiting things in this way. They're not Nobles, they're just... Privelidged.

So blurry i've found no one IG that could actually tell my PC if it was true Sharboneth allowed slavery.

That may've been the case a while ago, but the Politics page in Information presents "Servants" to the entire community publically. It's as clear as daylight that slavery is legal and cool.

People don’t know what to make of Sharboneth: no cult, no deeds of the leader to bring respect or disgust. They are just... here.

Then make a PC and rock out the faction! Start smashing seditionist skulls, start making it hard for people to not pay attention to you! 100% Character driven.

visible intrigue between DM factions would be neat, but there's only one main faction to deal with, and the others (Stygian, Order) are just mercenaries with their own agenda, even apparently working for/with the main faction.

All three factions work for the good of the Colony, that doesn't mean they don't fight each-other too. If you're concerned that the Colony doesn't have a blatantly rebel Seeker faction inside it, who cares? There's a blatantly rebel Seeker faction outside! Not all conflict in the colony has to be bloodshed and assault whenever you can get away with it. In my opinion, the contemplative, thoughtful chess-like machinations of every faction, be they application or PC run, makes the server feel a lot more like an actual city than the higgledy-piggledy mess forced to make a home in one old ruin.

[Egon the Monkey]

Well, yeah, but the Seekers seem to have changed into a DM-controlled threat, not a PC-available faction. There is a small rebel PC group that Crimson's trying to encourage, but it's rather harder up here IMO to play outlaws without so many real "bases" like Mur, the Shark, Thomas's Shop etc with services and NPCs, not just empty camps. Places a non-stealth or mage PC can get around from.

What would be great is if the Seekers were definitively noted as a DM faction in the lines of the Old Port Crook faction, for prominent rebellious PCs, with a "Don't find us, we'll find you" approach to the faction. A similar approach to that of the Rot Cult, with only a few PCs heavily involved, and maintaining a level of RP in between big DM led conflicts.

[Gwydion]

I have what is primarily a selfish point to make, but aren't all of our perspectives affected by what we have experienced?

Let'splayforfun's point:

Three: player factions never survive the leader’s death, partly because they actually build nothing except rping relationships. If the Dwarves had a keep built, if the Lathandrites had a temple, if the Tiamats had a shrine, it would bring continuity. Sure it’s making new areas, but small ones, and i’m sure the players themselve would use the toolset to propose their own small things. And those things could be fought over, destroyed, etc. That’s my idea of a sandbox, at least. For now, the factions i see are mostly questing groups, that pretend to build things, but never really do, and when the leader dies, so does the faction.

I'm not sure how to say this, but I'd like to see PC factions get a few tools designed to sustain some semblance of permanence.  Despite the initial "success" of the Lathanderite church, and the rewards in XP/DM loot/hawt plot hooks to some of the individuals of the faction, the faction as a whole could have benefited from some more "help".  

I really enjoyed playing Harold Blake, and thought the DMs gave him plenty of attention and RP rewards by being appointed to the Council.  But in reality, it didn't help the faction much.  He didnt' get any money, it didn't get them a faction HQ or do anything with NPC commoners or anyone to reflect the "influence" of the Lathanderite Church that we worked hard to generate.

To be constructive here are some suggestions:

1.   I think DM faction PCs should get better gear than most other PCs (which I think is reflected by plate mail for the Order and Armada- but I think it should be 2-3 things - perhaps including good weapons).  

2.  I'd like to see successful player factions that the DMs really like be rewarded with faction HQs, and NPCs.  We were really excited to get an NPC associated with our faction, but then he never showed up/did anything.  

3.  Give player factions the option to become a DM faction requiring an application and with faction perks.  To me, this would be the ultimate reward for a well played PC and faction.

The RP in the faction was amazing IMO, and we had a very server-specific goal to combat the undead/Nightrisers.  We worked hard to curry influence with PCs and NPCs with very little impact other than Blake making the Court. This had very little impact other than some cool RP for my character alone.

So my suggestion is that the DM staff rewards player factions more, and if interest in a DM faction wanes, let it die on the vine and turn the best PC factions into DM factions.  This would reward all the hard work that went into it by the players on the server, and make it feel like it is OUR sandbox.

Wouldn't a Lathanderite DM faction working to destroy the Nightrisers at any cost be that polarizing influence that Kotenku was talking about?  Personally it would have made all the hard work we put into the faction worth it to see a permanent, DM supported presence on the server.  

* I'm sure those reading this will say, "Well, you should have done A, B or C to get what you wanted."  The DMs were great with some of the PCs in the faction, but the faction as a whole needed a helping hand somehow.

Please take this as constructive suggestions and not whining, because my character was very fulfilling and rewarded by plenty of PC and DM attention.

I'd like to see other player factions become DM ones too, not just the Church of Lathander.  The Church of the Veil, The Gnomish Union, the Locksmith Guild and so on could all be great server presences.  This also would give players more options and niches to join rather than watching great concept after great concept disappear when its leader is gone.

[Random_White_Guy]

PC factions can and do survive their leader's deaths.

Its not often, but it certainly happens if someone from the ranks steps up. I can think of three current PC factions where this is happening.

The transition from PC to DM Faction thing would be extrodinary, except for the fact DM Factions are troubled enough as it is. We won't be adding any until we suitably believe the situation is "Fixed", and often times PC factions are not something easily taken up as the DM faction label

As for the concern of a lack of place like Mur, that's in the works. Just be patient. <_<

[Gwydion]

While transition from PC to DM faction was suggested, it certainly should be a rare thing earned over time.  

An intermediate status might be fine, where an NPC or two interact with the faction to help introduce faction plots and provide some permanence to the faction.  

Finally, a looming external threat from a powerful adversary or entity is what made EFU such a great atmosphere.  The drow.  The illithid.  The duergar.  The Shadow Dragon.  There is - some - of that happening now with the Manchakans, the Heart of the Rot and the various "prisoners" and Nightrisers, but not much.  I'm sure RWG's event will change that significantly.

Looming threats like the orcs are a great way to provide an awesome backstory, server-wide events and great stories.  Red Elient was probably the most memorable thing of the new server so far, and kudos to the DMs when they put these things on for us.