Subdual for kobolds and goblins

[Merrick4]

Suggestion. I think this would be useful IC for a variety of reasons. I also just had a small, not really interesting event where I killed a kobold (Shimmerscales) when I intended to subdue it. It was all good OOC, he didn't mind, just felt it would have been more interesting with subdual allowed. Until then you could improvise, as I wish i could have thought of at the moment but sadly did not, is to attack with lighter weapons or fists and try to heal it before -10 hp.

I just feel irksome due to ooc courtesy and build up to ever FD without strong purpose in an OOC sense.

[Paha]

You can play kobolds and goblins freely, but they are monsters. They are pests.

They should be treated like any NPC goblin or kobold. Hence, the ones that are not appied for and tagged, cannot be subdued. They will always be on FD. That is the risk. We endorse that for these two common monsters.

Applying will allow you to progress past the level limit and open the usual subdual rules, and it is not hard application. We just want some affirmation that you got an idea what you play and that you understand the chances / possibilities.

However, to repeat. We want people to treat these as the NPC versions are.

[Pandip]

If you feel like you have a concept that you're attached enough to that you'd like to roleplay out a death after being subdualed, then app for kobold/goblin. The new non-app monsters seem like throwaway alt distractions as they stand and it might be a mistake to think of them as anything more than that when you roll one.

[Paha]

That isn't true in itself either, though. They are there meant to be played, if one chooses to accept the chances. Well and properly played pesky monsters can thrive all the same, in different ways.

[Merrick4]

Thank you for your opinions, input DM's.

My thoughts more specifically were that -

It makes it harder to subdue the creature should you actually want to, it is possible but unintentional kills would occur, even using fists on the mostly low level goblins and kobolds. Unintentional killing is something more realistic and probably easier to manage in a slow setting like a table top game with the -10 hp rules. In the fast pace of the NWN game it has it's faults, from my view.

I am one of the people who regret killing them for OOC reasons. My current character for example is aware of some lore about goblins and kobolds turning to the more civilized races in FR lore, some becoming notable champions, and also living with the goblin rat merchants who inhabit lower who seem harmless in most ways.

I wouldn't be saying to change the rules, but to just allow subdual mode when fighting these. It also quickens the interaction from a RP sense. I understand your reasoning about people letting them go for OOC friendliness, kindness reasons.

[Spiffy Has]

Paha edited: Don't bother writing if you don't got anything worth saying.

[efuincarnate]

As the player of that particular kobold, Merrick, do not feel bad OOC.  If you had lost, you would of been poorer, and probably less well equipped.  They are monsters, slay them at will. It is what they are for., the non app ones anyhow. They are fodder and hopefully will always remain so!

[Merrick4]

I understand, i didn't feel tremendously guilty (I did feel pretty bad at the time efuincarnate, but not overall, i felt it was accidental. I was saying I had slow fingers and doubts about trying to subdue you which was my goal. ) or wronged fighting against you or playing a Kobold before. I understood the rules before playing one, I didn't mean for that to be a main point. It's more difficult to play situations of subduing one is what I tried to emphasize what I was thinking.

On the side note though, I do feel guilty being too heavy handed when dealing with someone's creative property you could say, It's out of a sense of admiration as well as courtesy and kindness.

[Big Orc Man]

Merrick, here is the solution -

Kobolds and goblins are both extremely cowardly.  Having only FD forces them to roleplay their cowardice by yielding before they are beaten down.  If the creature throws down its weapon and surrenders, then consider it subdued.  Decide to kill it or not.

Subdual invokes bravery, which doesn't fit non-app goblins and kobolds.