Death Spells

[Scrappa-yeti]

So for the second time, I have ground a character to a high level, only for it to be killed by a one hit death spell in a regular, non-spiced QA.

I understand the server should be hard, and I like that, but dying to a single dice roll from full hit points is just not very fun.

Part of the problem in both cases is that there is no warning that you should be prepared for death magic, other than you are in a hard QA.

If you enter an undead tomb, and there are bodaks wandering around, you know what you are getting into. But when a random QA endboss just makes you roll or die, it makes it very meta-gamey. Either you knew OOC that it could do that, and for no good IC reason just slap up a death ward (or cower at the back), or you die.

If we must have save or dies, can they at least be properly telegraphed?

[Scrappa-yeti]

NND made an suggestion I liked in chat, could death spells (both PvP and PvE) just reduce you to -1 hp immediately?

That way there is some sort of counter play.

[Howlando]

I am curious what quest you're referring to, since I don't think there's that much death magic in v5.

Ultimately, the question as to whether death magic should exist in EFU has been discussed endlessly... my view is that it makes things more exciting/dangerous, that (for almost all PCs) there are counters, and that it's not fundamentally any different than receiving a double crit from a greataxe or getting hit by 3 fireballs at once or stepping on a high powered trap.

Really though the issue is that you are (sorry to spoil!) playing an Ascetic and Ascetics just aren't balanced very well for EFU.

[Grouch]

The only death spells I would like to see removed from standard content are the high DC PHK's from the randomly generated bandits who also dispel.

You can't tell if they are going to be weak ones or strong ones, and I have had parties derailed by unfortunate PHK bandits in numbers.

Otherwise death spells and abilities tend to be in high level content, where you can expect things to be more dangerous and have some intention to kill you.

[Scrappa-yeti]

The first death was to sahuagin in Teheto, at level 8.

The second death was to fomorians in the rot seam. at level 9.

It is true that playing  an ascetic I could not have buffed to prevent the deaths, in both cases they could have killed any member of the party,  because no one had a death ward on (and I dont know for sure, but I dont imagine anyone had an 18 fort save). In both cases having native SR and primary fort save (not optimized, admittedly), my ascetic was probably one of the least likely to die in the party, statistically.

In the sahuagin QA, you are running around killing sharks and tough sahuagin, and desperately trying to find air. At no point did anyone ask, did we bring a cleric to buff us in case the next nearly identical looking sahuagin casts death spells?

Likewise in the fomorian QA, it is all acid damage and swarms. Great fun, very challenging, but at no point did anyone see a slightly larger fomorian and think, what I need now is death ward.

Even if you play the QAs perfectly, you are basically meta-gaming to buff appropriately.

Yes, you can die to other things suddenly, like a set of unlucky crits. But those crits are usually not unheralded - that giant clown has a scythe - so you are making strategic decisions based off that knowledge. Even if it isn't so obvious on the model, when you see the AB and the damage, you can make an assessment about if you can tank this mob if/when it crits, or if you have to bail immeditately.

I don't mind death spells from bodaks. I don't mind death spells from beholders. I don't  mind death spells from necromancers. You know what you are getting into when you step up to the plate. But unexpected death spells from random endbosses are not much fun! 

[HighGround]

I may be the outlier here, but I appreciate death magic.  I actually think it balances the game a bit.  There are certainly ways to defend against it, but it forces you to sacrifice other benefits; like taking rogue levels for sneak attack.

I can certainly see the annoyance from a random bandit casting PhK, or something; especially if they don't drop something good....

[VanillaPudding]

Assuming that is the same Sahuagin NPC, she also casts Harm which has a higher DC and is effectively worse than the death magic.

With that said, I agree more on the side of Howland here. I think death magic is generally fine and has a nice role to play both from NPCs and PCs alike.   The alternative suggestion might be to lower the DC a notch or two. I feel like ~16 has always been a solid number for scripted content (beholders, etc) and typically sides with the player while leaving room for things to happen still. All in all, a little bit of dedication towards being resilient can go a long way in the world of EFU! It's not bad form or RP to build in ways that you stated as "optimal", just portray what you build and it wil lbe mutually beneficial !

[Howlando]

Both quests you mentioned are fairly high level and very established EFU quests, I don't think the death magic needs to be removed.

Ascetic is definitely on the list to be modified in some ways.

I gave it some thought and decided to readjust the particularly dangerous bandit wizard variation.

[Cruzel]

Even if you play the QAs perfectly, you are basically meta-gaming to buff appropriately.

This is something that every caster and buffer does though and to some extent every character does once they know the quest.  You'll never see someone intentionally go "Oh shoot. I guess I should've  prepared elemental wards on this fireball-heavy quest" and choose the wrong spells just to 'fake it' being the first time doing that particular thing, as we oft do RP-wise in regards to quests.

As far as death magic goes? I agree wholeheartedly with the random bandit comments.  This is a bit rough and unnecessary. Those potion chugging and magic slinging named bandit groups are threatening enough without PHK.

As far as quests go though? There's only 3 quests I know of that have death spells, and they're all bosses.  The DC's are pretty reasonable, and while it's awful and rage inducing to roll low and eat the spell, it does fill the purpose of making these quests dangerous to even well-prepared groups. Without dangers like that, everyone would just steamroll to level 10,

[Scrappa-yeti]

There's only 3 quests I know of that have death spells

Well, I guess the only good news is I am only going to die to death spells one more time before I know which QAs to avoid!