The Nature Talk

[Random_White_Guy]

I had originally posted some of this in Vlaid's recent suggestion but didn't want to derail it so I figure a general discussion would be worthwhile.

EFU and Nature are so scatter-brained and multifaceted. Part by design of the many directions of the philosophy but also in part by what feels like BAD design. It all just feels like this lethargic Katamari Ball.

The Stewards as a whole don't feel like they have transitioned at all for the end of the World. The NPCS spew the same rhetoric they did on the Surface from my times in the faction on EFU:R. A majority of them exist in this "NPC Bubble" where most newer PCs to the server can't even name them OOCly or know who/what/where they live or what they do. They have no tangible presence beyond puttering around the Ark.

This is not critiquing any current nature PC. There's been some great shady business afoot, but at the same time EFU just has this history of weirdness when it comes to nature.

A few ideas.

- Documentation needs to be improved. If no one wants to write it up I've played a fair few nature PCs and I'd be glad to do a New Player style thread about Druids if I'm given some full details about what is possible with the Rot Druid, Super Secret Primordial Kit, Possible PC plot alternatives to "Hey DMs can I perform this Ritual", etc.

- The Steward NPCs are unknown and non-existent. They're more or less non-entities in the game world. There's no real presence of any NPC nature beyond the Ark and "Wink and nod" allusions to "secrets" being out there are the kind of things that crippled the Order in its various incarnations. There needs to be a visible and known presence. Use the Elders in Non-Stewardic events more maybe? The Elder of Chaos should be widely known and wanted by people in Dunwarren for inspiring anarchy and destruction. The Elder of Evil should have an influence and spread about and be known if not added to "prominent villains". The Elder of Good and Law should both be known in some capacity of helping those in need or fostering growth and flourishing despite the tumultuous end of the world.

- The Great Druid who is a raging thundercunt of a Hag and this giant savage should be as known if not more known than some "Random" Troll-bridge witch who occasionally shows up to wreck people who don't pay her bridge tax.

- I'd suggest adding NPCs who are either docile, hostile, or both that represent Stewardic presence in the active module. Maybe some hostile or some docile traders/herbalists/merchants or anything. Something beyond Mycopolis.

- If rituals are the focus I'd suggest adding a counterpoint to the Druid Ritual that PCs can break up. Maybe some kind of Earth-quake in the Canal busting pipes or Rustbust or similar type event of an Offensive Ritual with a timer instead of a defensive ritual. Or maybe a Mid-to-High level Counter quest to the Auxiliary Sewer Repair. Something, anything, that feels more active.

- Give them an edge. I know people are always tongue and cheek about how "Druids brought around the end of the world" but let's be real - The Stewards as a whole have been battling the Aberrants, the Undead, and other "Freaks" of Nature for centuries according to EFU canon. Give them tools, resources, and powers to reflect that. Maybe bring back how the Society had their little pools that gave their weapons bonus aberrant damage or other perks.

On the whole I've had PCs and DMs alike rail against me when I suggest the idea of nature over the past 6-8 months.

Something's broken clearly if that's the case. I don't know if the above stuff will fix it, if something needs to fundamentally change, or if the faction as a whole should just "Go Dormant" for a while and re-emerge later with a new face.

It's clear though that Nature is in a bad way, so I just want to try and foster some discussion about it. There's clear disconnect between PCs and DMs between what's possible, feasible, desirable, etc.

[IxTheSpeedy]

RWG as usual, nice post.

As someone who, for whatever reason, is most comfortable playing team nature as apposed to other concepts. I've definitely played a number of Steward, Guardian, and general nature folks.  I'd say that when we're hot, we're awesome, but when we're not, it's very difficult.

Specifically to your points on NPC involvement, it's interesting. The elders can be absolutely terrifying, I mean I have been actually IRL almost scared of them at times when playing a Steward...  But you're right, they have zero engagement outside of the Ark.  I think it's great to question this point actually, it's funny that it's never occurred to me to do so.

I think that it really all boils down to your first point, the story hasn't really progressed for them. Think about it.  It's the end of the world, they are likely one of the last circles in existence and they have a home that is basically insulated from the Illithid threat.  That is an incredible platform to work from as far as trying to literally save the world.  At least to carve out a place of sanctuary (pun intended...)  in it.  

Is it just that the DMs don't have time to focus on them? That's possible.  

I think that your suggestion around giving the Stewards an edge against the Abberant is a great one.  Druid spells don't really aid all that much.  I mean a simple magic weapon spell or flame weapon, etc, would go a long way and neither are available.  

 

[Valo56]

I want to make a point here about the Steward NPC involvement, because RWG is absolutely right.

I joined EfU in July 2008, as NightShadow. I applied to play a Steward on two or three separate occasions before I switched over to Valo at some point in EfUM.

Due to a mixture of bad luck and.. more bad luck, my PC's have always died or gone down a different route prior to induction to the Stewards, often even with an approved app to be one, so I have never actually played a Steward despite really really really really wanting to and having played like 50,000 druids (bar none my favorite class).

Despite this, I've visited the Ark a few times. I learned the nature of the Ark. I have learned of a fair few druidic secrets and helped them at various points.

But one thing I have never seen is a Steward NPC. It wasn't until mid-EfUM that I even learned that there were "Elders," and that was only something I inferred when I learned that Erasmus, the Fury had become one (I think it was Erasmus, at least.).

To this day I do not know a thing about anything to do with the Steward Hierarchy. That the Great Druid is a hag is news to me.

Honestly, as far as my perspective is concerned the Stewards may as well be a very exclusive PC faction. Having their NPC's play a bigger role in matters would probably do wonders to instill a renewed interest in nature concepts, and further help focus "team nature" a bit more.

[Arc]

Most posts about druids and the stewards I end up disagreeing strongly with. I think they're one of the best, most interesting factions on the server, and most people start suggesting things that would disrupt that.

However, I agree with every single word of RwGs post. Dead on.

[Howlando]

I will just toss this in here:

DRUID:
- Primordial Druid -
"In the wake of devastation and destruction, some druids have begun to believe that the only way the world can be renewed and balance restored is for the world to be reverted to the primordial slime. By washing away the abominable horrors by a tide of ooze, new and natural life will begin anew.
As druid, except:
- Summoning theme set to ooze
- Animal companion works similarly as Ooze Devout ooze familiar (degrade tool, can be fed, etc.)
- Contagion has been modified to use the plague system.
- 25% acid immunity at level 8
- Access to minor slime form polymorph at level 5, more powerful slime at 8

[/I][/COLOR]

At some point this will be available to be selected. It may not be fully balanced at this time. But the possibility is there.

[Elfception]

Seeing the elders and the the great druid more active outside of the ark would be great, and would inevitably lead to them forging more goals for stewards and druids alike as they are exposed to the outside world and its influences and intrigue

[Pandip]

The Stewards/nature issue is a result of a cyclical pair of problems: PC's don't want to play Stewards because they are lonely, secluded, and there is little support for them or plot elements involving them... and DM's don't seem to be even marginally interested in focusing on the Stewards or more nature-orientated events because there are no players to run them for. Ultimately, I think the weight of the issue rests on the DM team's shoulders. Before the Spellguard vs Society war, I think the only server-wide event that the Stewards even had a reason to be involved in was Tulathek... which was years ago. Even when the Ark was opened up more to non-Stewards, it came as a forum announcement rather than an actual event that took place on the server.

I understand that this might not be a priority right now considering the transitory period that EFUR is supposed to be in, and the simple fact that the server's population is smaller than it used to be and it's easier to appeal to where the most players are. But until the major issues in the nature-orientated parts of the server are addressed or resolved in a big way, nature concepts are going to continue to be for players who enjoy the lonely niche that portion of the server provides and bandwagon concepts that are willing to commit towards pushing forward interesting goals using nature as a group. And, honestly, as long as the players that get involved with the Stewards and nature are comfortable understanding this and the DM team is content to let this be the case, I think this is fine.

It's probably not healthy to the discussion to lay out every single issue nature has in excruciating detail -- I bitch enough about this sort of thing on IRC when the topic comes up. I do think it's worth stating that there are a fair number of cool things that a druid can get involved in and a player with a particularly active agenda, a bit of mechanical prowess, and a touch of passion can genuinely make some waves as a nature-orientated character with a fair amount of work.

In terms of short-term benefits, I would be an advocate for making the nature prelude a bit less grindy and adding a small, quick 2-4 quest that helps nudge solo players along. Having the Mycopolis NPC's have dialogues that direct players towards soloable content would also be nice for those players who are not veterans of the solo grind to 5. Nature concepts without stealth struggle. Frankly, any nature concept that isn't a druid generally tends to have an extremely hard time. Adding more soloable content that's available to those who start in the nature prelude is always welcome, including resources, quests, useful gathering turn-ins, gear that allows for easier survival, etc. I realize that nature is meant to be difficult, but players aren't going to play in the lonely, secluded, and occasionally brutal nature-based part of the server if they can't get past level 5 without pulling their teeth out. I'm not sure if this is still an issue, but I'd also ask to please get rid of the change that disallows mage armor on wildshape or buff wildshape to compensate for the loss. I know the reason this was changed and I understand it, but it's a sizable nerf to a class that is hurting.

edit: shit, didn't realize this thread is months old.

[Stranger]

I have played on EfU for three years. In that time, I have seen an NPC from the Stewards of the Ark only once.

They exiled my character from the Ark over an ethical disagreement and I never saw another.

[Saturnalia]

When I created my first steward I was absolutely amazed by the depth and lineage that you just get tossed into. I don't have a problem with the solitary life, it just means that I can spend more time exploring the crafting system and fishing.

A issue maybe stems from a lack of a solid plot direction. There are the basic anti-unnatural and druid code directions, but for anything more intricate and because of the nature of every alignment represented you get a lot of possible opinions on a single subject. The internal conflict amazingly has unlimited possibilities, but unfortunately it tends to imply that the overarching direction has to be made by the Great Druid after she weighs all the options. Without the hierarchy's deciding voice, and because of the isolation inherent it seems like everyone walks to the beat of their own drum.

After every post on the forums or dm interaction IG there is a breath of life in the faction that you have to hold on to for an amount of solo time until the next puff comes along.

The most recent allowance of a player group to take permanent residence in the Ark has been a great decision to promote the area as another hub for grouping and roleplaying. I am really excited about the possibilities that it can bring to the faction as a whole.

The Stewards are a truly unique faction, and it still is by far the best time I've had in EFUR.

[AllMYBudgies]

I've been reluctant to respond to this thread, although I suppose people may have been expecting me to.

As a player I almost exclusively played nature characters throughout my years at EFU, a majority of them Stewards and a larger majority of them Druids. Whilst playing those characters I can count on one hand the amount of DM interaction that my characters had, or exclusive "nature plots" I was involved in. However, there was never a time that my characters and their allies and faction mates were not involved in something.

Being a Steward, or even being a Druid, does not bar you from the other plots that are happening on the server. As a Steward, a Druid or an ally to nature means that you should be shoehorning yourself into everyone's business and reacting to everything that is going on everywhere. You are a voice of balance and as such you should be involved in whatever you can.

Now that isn't to say that I am passing the book. As a DM my almost exclusive interest is in nature and that side of the server - a fact I have been praised and vilified for in equal amounts - and the reality is that my one plot that was directly stewards based was years ago now. Howeveer after that plot the burnout was real, and there have been major plots since that I have noticed the Stewards shying away from which is unusual to me. Plots are not designed for "nature only" or "whatever faction only". And at times I feel that there is a strange disconnect from the rest of the server based around an overview that 'team nature' are not involved in things. By playing on the server you are involved in things, involve yourself.

As for the NPC's being more active the same could be said elsewhere, that you do not see them wandering around is hardly a stewards only 'problem' if you will.

To me, the Stewards have one of the most rich and carefully woven stories with heritage spanning every chapter and being directly involved in all of the major changes that have happened up till this date. The faction and indeed the classes and play styles most prominent therein aren't for everyone, and yes it can feel isolated, lonely and hard to log in for at times - I know all to well how it feels myself - however I maintain that the role play found in the wilderness when it happens and the excitement of interactions is always worth those lulls.

[Elfception]

   not that the NPC's not wandering about are a serious problem, or the stewards "only" problem, it would just be nice to see them become involved in serious plots or intrigues- as the elders and great druid are a guiding force of great influence to not only the Stewards, but -all- nature.. Seeing them involved in bigger things, or even just their words and wisdom on such happenings I feel would urge all stewards, and nature pc's affiliated with them to get more involved in many aspects of the server that they seem to shy from, or other plots. Yes, it should be a PC's own seeking and branching out to find these plots and involve in them, but many plots.. From what I've seen are not nature-friendly, or involve too many aspects outside of nature that would discourage a druid or steward from getting involved in them, or the feeling that said plots are too oriented towards actions and goals that may be against the balance or seem too far in the grey area that a druid or steward would be cautious about getting involved with. -That- is where the words and involvement of the Elders and Great Druid would come massively in handy to encourage involvement in various plots that may seem in the grey area for druid involvement until they say so otherwise, or would give a view or nature face on the plots that are nature-friendly would urge stewards or druids to get involved in them more.

   I can definitely agree that the Stewards/Nature have some of the most interesting stories and rich lore to explore, the concept possibilities and different sides of nature to take sides on are near limitless and definitely not limited to just a few aspects. Yes it can be pretty lonely, and isolated at times when other nature pc's who are much fewer than other groups on the server don't happen to get on everyday, or do get on everyday just not for very long (that can be a issue of player's availability for playtimes, or opposite timezones rather than nature's problem itself however). But there is a huge server to explore, I personally on Fael make a habit of trying to explore a new area of the server every time I get on before I log if I have time, and I've found many amazing places and area's that were exciting to see that I normally wouldn't have explored.

   And wilderness/steward/nature rp is indeed A+, it is full of rich detail and both friendship, kinship, shared ideals- And of course, conflict, as there are so many faces to nature that conflict with one another that your bound to have a rival or begrudged ally that you don't quite get along with due to differences in beliefs and nature aspects, and that can often either explode into full blown conflict, possibly drive you to be greater allies in finding common ground among your differences, or merely tolerating one another but butting heads often.

   and as to DM involvement in Team Nature, I too can count on one hand the plots I've seen and they don't even make a full hand, but when those plots do arise they are some of the best plots I have been graced to involve in, as to DM interactions, I've had a surprising amount actually, there's a lot more than you would think, whether it's a DM bringing forth a particular foe for you to face and converse with shortly, or the odd occurrence when a Steward NPC just happens to come to life and RP with you for a bit, these occurrences though few, and spaced out do happen more often than you would think- but only happen if you trudge through the loneliness and stay on even if it means being alone for a few hours, or getting on everyday to do -something-, if you are unwilling to get past the fact that you may be lonely at times you likely will miss out on a lot of these rich enjoyable interactions. And it's worth mentioning, that you need not be lonely either just because there aren't other nature folk on, lower is open to druids even if you shouldn't spend too much time there, visiting there once a day to just look around can often run you into lower pc's who are -more- than happy to RP with you, and even adventure with you- and if you involve enough with them, might even lure you into some of their PC plots that are quite interesting and fun to help them pursue (of course as long as those plots aren't anti-nature, BUT EVEN THEN, if they are.. Well now you have a new thing to oppose and get active in involvement with).

After having played many non-nature concepts, and pc's I've finally been drawn deeper into the lure of the nature side of the server, and I can say I haven't regretted it for a moment even with the occasional loneliness or the seemingly lack of DM presence and plots- there is simply so much to do if your willing to look around and discover everything! And I think it's safe to say that I might be dedicating myself to Team Nature from now on, as I've experienced many facets of the server, and so far Team Nature is my favorite of all, so if your ever afraid that you might be hopping into Team Nature only to suffer being alone, know that if I am actively playing EfU at the time, you will have a friend, companion, or foe to keep you busy on the nature side from here on out! And naturally, if players see things happening among the pc's of nature, its bound to draw more players into it. I heavily encourage people to involve in nature.

   And as to AllMyBudgies, I can say everything i've been involved with for their nature events and plots has been a blast, and truly memorable. And it's worth mentioning, that many aspects of the server are not so lucky to have a DM dedicated to a specific aspect of the server like AMB is, and having a dedicated DM alone to it should serve as a reminder that things -will- happen, that there -will- be things to find yourself involved in beyond just your own and other pc's goals. AMB is only human and can only dedicate so much time to Team Nature at any given point and not get burned out or needing to take breaks from time to time, but it's definitely worth saying that if you stick around with Team Nature, that if you develop a rich concept and dedicate to it 100%, if you involve yourself in the various facets of nature and the Stewards, you are definitely going to see some of AMB's awesomeness, and trust me, its worth the in-between waits.. I think by now I have been involved in 2 plots of which AMB has been involved with or ran for Team Nature in my past PC's (not just the stewards!) and they were well worth sticking around for. In fact, I eagerly await to see what AMB will run next for Team Nature, and when it comes I will definitely be involving Fael into it.

Lastly, Team Nature yes could use a few new directions to be pointed towards, a few goals that are beyond just the PC's to pursue, some new opportunities, some guidance from superior forces, but look at it this way.. If PC's don't stick with it, don't stay active, and don't actively try to make things happen, it can be discouraging to a DM to put the effort and time into a plot, system, or opportunity for Nature if PC's have already shown that they aren't very dedicated or active to participate in them, to drive what the DM has gifted to nature to pursue. Even if there is only 1-2 PC's really involved in nature at the moment, if they show consistency and activity it is highly encouraging to a DM to put forth those efforts to reward them for their dedication. Lately, Team Nature has seen some serious love from players, and a lot more are involved and active now, so I would say stick around.. Because a DM might just be motivated to throw something our way for great fun seeing the high amount of us active and ready to drive forth their efforts into fruition. It's also worth mentioning that there is already a plot out there and happening with Team Nature as a whole, not just the stewards, and it's even involving non-nature into it that is causing great conflict, great alliances, and many.. Fun.. Fun games and challenges.. And the best part? It has very little required DM involvement, the necessities for the plot are already out there, it's now up to the PC's to take action to see it reach fulfillment.

All in all, Nature just like every other faction, or aspect of the server has its flaws, and it's difficulties, and sure it could use some improvement, but lots of the "improvements" that Nature could use can be achieved by PC activity and involvement with nature, which so happens to be increasing heavily of late, so you may find that lots of your problems with nature will dissipate as you have many more nature friends, and foes to keep you busy and active, as well as outside of nature influences to become involved with as they seem to be involving themselves with nature of late as well.

Sorry I know this is a long post, I'm guilty of those often, but if you take the time to read it, I think it may ease some of the worries of nature and help encourage and bolster your interest in staying dedicated or involved, as well as give you more avenues to consider with nature. Thank you for your time, this is my big piece on the nature talk.

[Pentaxius]

I don't understand why people expect much of "NPC possessions" for the purpose of "setting directions" - In my books, it actually deters creativity and narrows down faction direction into what the guy with the blue circle said. Silence is a feature.

Also, being reluctant to get involved in plots because they may, or may not end in ways not compatible with the balance, or waiting for NPCs to give "guarantees" that plot involvement will be safe with regards to broader faction goals shouldn't be a thing. There is a lot of wiggle room, and its by design, to justify a wealth of plots as conducive to the balance.

Just jump into the fray!

[putrid_plum]

Nature is fine. It's laid back, sometimes more 'dull' but some players really enjoy that type of play. I never understand those who say Stewards are not connected to plots or the server. I feel they have some of the richest lore of all the faction and have been active every single chapter of EFU. You are only limited by your own creativity and desire to be involved.