Raise Dead, Candles of Life, and Spell Failure

[LiAlH4]

This topic may have been broached before, but I feel it should be revisited now that we have a new setting before us and a wide expanse of opportunities to change how things work. The issue I hope to raise for input/debate is simply this:


Clerics of any sort who reach level 9, possess a small diamond, and have gone 'above and beyond' for their faith are granted the ability to raise the dead. Even after fulfilling all of these requirements, however, the same cleric still has a spell-failure chance which is based on a variety of hidden factors. Among these are the alignment of the cleric and the target, the length of time the target has been slain, and presumably a few other factors which I do not know. Given the rarity of all three of the components needed to achieve the circumstances of a PC raising the dead, it is no wonder that such an event is rare in the extreme.

By contrast, 1500 ducats will buy you a one use item, the Candle of Life, which is subject to none of the spell-failure issues the living cleric is. It is to my knowledge a foolproof means of seeing a PC restored to life.

My argument is simply that the former case results in a great deal of positive roleplay; this being centered around finding the priest in question, convincing him to cast the spell, and perhaps finding the diamond itself. Yet in reality there is little reason to go through all this trouble (along with the possibility that the spell may not work entirely) when there is a simple and relatively inexpensive alternative which cannot fail. I do not think the candles of life should be removed, because finding a PC who can cast the spell is at times difficult and at other times outright impossible. I think that a measure of spell-failure should be added to the Candle of Life, based mostly on how long the PC has been dead.

What does EFU:M think? I do hope it is not "LiAlH4 is a self-serving git". :)

[Keeper of the White Wyrm]

Double their price to 3k. <.<

[Valo56]

In my opinion, because it is so rare and difficult a feat in comparison to raising 1.5k gold, make it so that when a PC casts it, it can even raise those who have been disfigured, decapitated, etc.

[Egon the Monkey]

I'd agree but making it harder to get a raise is just going to lead to more permas and ragequits. Few PCs are going to have 3000GP on them if they could have less gold but more supplies to keep them from dying in the first place.

On the other hand rewarding a prominent Cleric who reaches L9 and manages to get hold of a diamond with something that raises him above the level of "1.5k gold to NPC" would be a positive step. Always better to make an underused mechanism useful than break something that players do make use of. Possibly Raise Dead could be changed to require a flat sacrifice of gold, or diamonds sold for 1k at a store in town to make it a reliable option if you have the money and an allied Cleric. The hard part should be knowing a L9 active cleric and ponying up the cash, not a scavenger hunt for a reagent. Your own ally should always be the go-to guy as opposed to a generic NPC. I'd think the best option would be:

Raise Dead:
This spell requires a small diamond as a component and a PC raised with it will lose 1/6 of his XP on respawn. It cannot raise PCs that are decapitated or missing major organs. If cast by a PC, this spell has a hidden chance of granting various levels of bonus XP to the raised character or being able to raise a PC that would otherwise need a Resurrection. This chance is based on alignment, PC faithfulness etc.

That way a L9 PC is equivalent to the candle of life at worst, but notable PCs can make the spell *better* than it and would be worth seeking out. Someone who'd simply crushed their way to L9 wouldn't be any better than it.

[Arch Rogue]

The only issue with Raise Dead is the rarity of the diamonds. Otherwise it works fine as it is, DMs can raise or lower your chance to succeed in the ritual on the fly.

[Porkolt]

Yeah, it's totally unfair that a completely common stone such as a diamond would be so difficult to get.

[HaveLuteWillTravel]

Personally, I don't think we should be making it more likely that PCs are perma'd due to, higher expense, no proper L9 priest, bad timing (priest or DM not online), opposition to the only L9 priests, or any other variety of factors.

I also think the DMs would become really very bored if they became "help me raise a PC" machines and had to entertain this request on a constant basis, since a DM is required for this.

Give some more advantages to being raised by a PC, sure, but don't make it harder to get raised than it is right now. The expense is already 150% what its cost was on EfU:A.

[Egon the Monkey]

I thought that Raise Dead is scripted, but what AR means is that the DMs can choose to adjust the % failure. Do you actually need a DM?

[HaveLuteWillTravel]

In the past you always needed DM present to cast it. If that's changed I wasn't aware.

[Drakill Tannan]

I've never seen raise death being used. Probably because it's an entirely worthless spell by the reasons mentioned in the OP. Already one needs to be a remarkable PC to be a level 9 cleric, else he get's spell failture, so any cleric that makes it to levle 9 is already a worthy PC, raising the dead, considering his level and achivements necesary to reach them, sould not be too dificult. Remove all spell failture form the spell, imo.

[Luke Danger]

I've only seen it a few times; once the DM's turned off spellfail for a Chauntean PC who used it a lot when respawn was shut off at the end of Sanctuary, and when Benes did it (which was a semi-massive RP affair)

[Howlando]

System adjusted.