Scripted lore checks, and identify

[Drakill Tannan]

The last mayor update changed identify so it no longer gives a lore bonus. While this is good when identifying items, it is rather trobulsome when faced against scripted lore checks. The checks are high, and without identify, some characters, no matter how much lore they have, simply won't be able to reach a decent 50%.

My suggestion is so that secondary lore adds +1 to your scripted lore checks for each 2 ranks, and allow to research it up to 20 or 30, so that it forces a strong investment for the wizard, but allows him to transalte this tables realistically.

[Meldread]

I'm not completely sure why identify has been changed.  According to the description it seems that identifying items is a guaranteed success now with this spell, making investment in lore and secondary lore skills less useful.

This is in addition to the problem Drakill Tannan has put forth.  I've seen lore checks in game that had 60 DC and greater to beat.  This is impossible in -all- cases without uber +lore DM loot or identify.

I'm not against the change, per-say.  I just don't know why it was necessary, and feel that as a result, someone is going to have to go around and seek out all the scripted lore checks in game and re-balance all of them to take into account identify no longer works.

Maybe that was already done, if so, then this issue is rather moot. :p

[OldPortOutcast]

Lore checks will probably be lowered and Legend Lore scrolls/items/ aren't terribly difficult to find.

Saying Lore Skill is less useful because identify is more useful is a bit ludicrous though, Lore is a pretty frequently rolled skill on DM quests.

[derfo]

I think this is a cool idea, it seems like it makes Legend Lore actually useful and those ultra lore checks an eventful thing while helping with items that have jacked up costs for traditional identification, and so on. A nice convenient change.

[Thomas_Not_very_wise]

Always the Dwarven 18 intelligence bard with skill focus lore.

[Meldread]

First, Legend Lore stacked with Identify.  So it is incorrect to state that it's more useful - it was extremely useful under the old system, especially when trying to hit 60+ Lore Check DC's.  If Lore Check DC's are lowered to take into account the Identify change, Legend Lore is no more or less useful than it was previously.

Second, it isn't ludicrous to say the lore skill has become slightly less useful.  If you automatically, with 100% success, are able to identify items in your inventory so long as you drink the potion / cast the spell / use the wand / whatever... That means the lore skill is no longer required.  Item identification was the main day-to-day purpose of the lore skill.  Under the old system even with identify in some cases you couldn't identify some items unless you had invested in the skill.  Ergo, the lore skill is less useful.  

I have to see how the changes work in actual play before I comment more in detail or formulate an opinion one way or another.  My main initial concern mostly revolves around the issue brought up by Drakill Tannan.

[Snoteye]

Identify was changed precisely for the reasons brought up in this thread. Those insane Lore DCs were necessary because players would just chuck a potion of Identify and suddenly become omniscious.

[Howlando]

Some DCs will be adjusted down.

But really, this change is excellent - it was no fun at all for anyone with a lore potion to be able to rape some of our checks.

[Egon the Monkey]

I assume you're dropping Alchemy and Herbalism DCs too? Identify tends to be a prequisite for some of the high level recipes.

[Mort]

Identify never added toward your alchemy/herbalism score, before.

[Egon the Monkey]

No, but it added to your Lore score, and Lore is a skill taken into account for Alchemy and Herbalism crafting checks. http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33776

[Mort]

Yes... but the identify bonus was substracted from that check.

[Meldread]

Identify was changed precisely for the reasons brought up in this thread. Those insane Lore DCs were necessary because players would just chuck a potion of Identify and suddenly become omniscious.

Some DCs will be adjusted down.

But really, this change is excellent - it was no fun at all for anyone with a lore potion to be able to rape some of our checks.

Awesome.  I couldn't figure out why identify was changed, but with this being the reason it makes a lot more sense.  Hopefully this will also lead to more scripted lore checks in game.  I love stuff like that.

[Drakill Tannan]

Why not just allow secondary lore to be usable in the checks? No need to lower the DCs, and would make investing points in secondary lore more desirable.