RE: The Conclave (Warning, lots of bitching and probably whining.)

[Tanonx]

Hmmm... So, if I'm understanding the issue correctly, it's not so much that the DMs don't want to give the quiet ones a chance, so much as the DMing staff is already up to its ears in work? It would seem to be the root of many issues here, that the DM staff is simply too overworked, and is thus forced to drop the less promising ideas, or else risk all their time spent on something that didn't work out.

I don't suppose a recruiting drive would be in order?

[ScottyB]

Every time I spend some time away from EFUA I come back to see a new DM or two. There is no rapid means of recruiting that would make everyone happy while maintaining server integrity.

More important, to me, is finding a reliable means of curing DM burnout. >____>

[derfo]

Deflaro, you are not a boring* player (usually! :P). I think we've made it clear that it's definitely fun for us to do these sorts of things with non-boring* players. Coming up with cool stuff for somebody who we know will make it even cooler is pretty much the most awesome part about DMing. Making a blind effort to throw a bone out to the boring* players is a major coin-flip that often turns out to be un-fun.

In short, while I can and definitely do agree to that, I think that everyone has a point where they don't necessarily play as optimally as they could/should/whatever, and still firmly believe that 'nudges' with a significant or little amount of effort are almost always a decent idea, and they do happen, which is good, the more deserved ones to people that happen, the better.

I still think they should happen more in varying degrees, even to 'boring' yet hopeful characters, as DM time/interest and players with the right  attitude allow. (keeping in mind this probably needs to cater to 50 or whatever players with varying opinions, etc.)

Anyways, I'm sure I'm not capable of changing anyone's opinion here since they seem so very set, so I'll cease posting.

[VanillaPudding]

Every time I spend some time away from EFUA I come back to see a new DM or two. There is no rapid means of recruiting that would make everyone happy while maintaining server integrity.

More important, to me, is finding a reliable means of curing DM burnout. >____>

When almost every single DM you guys recruit either cuts their playing time in a third or stops playing completely within a month or two then maybe some things need to be reworked or at least given a serious second look.

There are countless ways to alleviate some of the burden you DMs face (Public service, answering questions, dealing with bugs, solving disputes, answering complaints, posting in threads like this,  and with the little free time after the trouble... running quests / plots) and I truly think that employing some of those options might be a good idea at this stage of nwn / EFU where new blood is more and more rare.

[Gippy]

You will find more happiness in making existing DM plots work for your PCs, then crossing your fingers and hoping a DM plot is made for your PC. There are enough DM plots out there currently (not always, but right now there is a good deal of activity) that if you seek it you can be part of the greater EFU story. If you do not want to be a part of the story, but selfishly want the story to be about you, then you should re-examine your priorities.

Our greatest problem is making the story available to everyone. Our NPCs are very awesome. Have we in all cases portrayed this? No, we've failed. Do some of our NPCs seem too awesome to be real? Yes, but there is obviously more to the story.

Our world of EFU:A is a coherent evolving story. Pay attention to it because it provides the backdrop of the world, and hints to future plots. Season 2 is wrapping up. Season one ended with Sharboneth rule of the colony and the test of Red Eliant. Season two ended with the rise of the conclave and the banishment of Ixpadia to the underdark. What major role will your PC play in the next epoch of EFU:A? That is what I ask myself before character creation.

[Meldread]

Core-

There is one simple fact that no one really seems to want to address.

Fact:  There will always be mediocre and shitty players.  I'm sorry, but it's true.  Some people will just never, ever, produce a character that has the potential to rise to equal even some of the more mediocre characters we've had.  It's just a fact that some people are more talented than others.

Meldread's Opinion:  We need those shitty and mediocre players.  They form the base upon which our server is built.  When they leave it directly harms the elite players of our server, because then they have less people to involve in their awesomeness.  

When elite players look around and see less mediocre and shitty players to involve in their awesome, they eventually get bored.  When they are bored, they leave.

As a result success is like a perpetual motion machine.  Success is measured by how many people are having fun, and this can be directly related to population numbers.  The more fun people have, the more people who play, the more people who play and tell others from the server they came from about the awesomeness of EfU, the more people who join our server.  Ultimately, the shitty players through word of mouth attract to us the next great elite player.

Consequently, failure is measured by how many people are not having fun, and this can be directly related to population numbers.  This failure slows the momentum of our server growth, ultimately leads to stagnation and eventually decline.

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I don't deny that this may not be fun for DM's.  I don't deny anything that has been said by those who hold an opposing view to my own (on the whole at least - we could quibble about the details).  However, the above are the facts as I see them.

I believe the approach being sponsored by Caddies and others has consequences.  I essentially view it as trading short term enjoyment for long term enjoyment.  As a player I do a lot of things with my characters that I don't particularly enjoy in the short term (such as questing) because I believe it has long term payoff.  

Thus, it is my goal in posting in this thread to get people - such as Caddies and others - to see the consequences I believe will result from their actions.  Namely, it will lead to a server of elitists, whose numbers continually decline until the server dies off.

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Another consequence I believe has to do with the points Gippy brought up in his post.  (Which I largely agree with being true:  If you attach yourself to DM plots you will have more success.)

That consequence has to do with how new DM's are selected, and I think both Caddies and Gippy are good examples.  Essentially we take our best players and make them DM's.  Our best players are movers and shakers, they are pro-active, they are the driving force behind our server.  Naturally, as DM's they want to continue doing that which they found awesome as players, and as DM's they can... but they are no longer players.

If you look at both Caddies and Gippy's words they're essentially saying this (it is my take away from what they've posted at least):  'Look at our awesome NPC's.  They have amazing backstories.  They are just as important as the PC's.'

Whereas most every player is saying this (including Caddies and Gippy when they were players):  'Look at my awesome character.  He / she has an amazing backstory.'

Even the shitty and mediocre players believe their characters are deserving of attention, even if everyone else on the entire server believes they are not.  People inherently like to think of themselves as important and worthy of attention by others, even if no one else wants to grant it to them.  This is why shitty players leave the server when DM's favor the best players, because the shitty and mediocre players feel slighted, ignored, and overlooked.

It's also certainly possible for both sides to be right.  There can be awesome NPC's AND awesome PC's.  But if you ask me which I would rather have:  Governor Ortred or Governor Sharboneth?  Governor Ortred wins hands down.  Why?  Because I can interact with Governor Ortred on a much more personal level, and do things with Ortred that I could never do with an NPC.  At least not without hogging insane amounts of DM attention and time, which would negatively impact other players.  

What exists here I believe is a philosophical difference.  Great players who go on to be DM's want to continue being great.  Yet, in the end, it is MUCH more productive to the server and community when DM's - instead of trying to be great themselves - help others achieve greatness instead.

[Germain]

I think this thread has run it's course.

[Howlando]

I'm going to abuse my power and post in a locked thread -

I just want to emphasize that EFU DMs are all about giving -nudges- to all kinds of characters and players, it's just it's not such a good use of time to construct an elaborate plot for a character that isn't doing much to give back to the server or other characters itself.

For instance, running a quick little DM quest having to do with collecting some herb or whatever could very easily end up taking hours of time.

It is definitely not true that EFU DMs only cater to the superstars, but rather that there's a long list of proactive/fun players (which probably includes everyone reading this thread) who we want to help first.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to coming back and DM'ing for everyone  again.