Make PfE pots less common

[Anonymous Bosch]

Idea's been nicely shot down, so I think it's safe to say the suggestion isn't going to happen.
 
As a final note, if there were a fight between a fairly well equipped fighter and a fairly well equipped mage of equal, reasonably achievable level and assuming there is no pre-determined method of initiating combat (ie, can't necessarily assume a surprise attack from either party) I'd rate my chances of success higher playing as the fighter.
 
Not that it will stop me playing wizards from time to time, of course.  Just my opinion on the relative strength of each class type.

[Belgaroth]

There is an obsession with winning in one encounter.
 
If a mage and a warrior fight, the warrior won't have any chance of winning if the mage is fully prepared, or even if both are fully prepared. The mage will dispel everything so the warrior won't have any chance of harming the mage, and at best he will survive and manage to run away (if the mage runs out of spells, it will be easier to run away for him, because he remains buffed). Nobody wins, but the warrior will have wasted a lot of consumeables while the mages will only have wasted spells, which he will get back by resting, so next time they fight it's likely the mage will win. Another reason to not introduce any change that would make being paralyzed by HP more likely. This spell means instant death, PfA doesn't.

[Drakill Tannan]

An all-or-nothing defense is perfectly fine against an all-or-nothing spell, which hold person effectively is.
 
Being the caster initiating with a hold person against a warrior is far more likely to guarantee you a won match (and virtually guarantees you can make a draw) than being a warrior initiating by chugging a PvA against a caster.
 
PvA does not disable the caster himself at all, and only makes certain of his abilities ineffective, and even that's making several assumptions, ie no dispell, the alignment actually matches the potion, and so on.
 
On the other hand, a mere ONE of those abilities it MIGHT prevent will completely shut down a warrior, making not only his abilities, but the chance of retreat completely impossible.
 
PfA is fine as it is.

Took me a while to answer, mostly because i haven't been online in a while but...

I disagree, entirely. Wizards/Sorcerers are the strongest of classes precicely because of that kind of power, take it away and they are support, and clerics can do better.

An all-or-nothing spell is still a bold move, if the fighter succeds in the save likely the wizard/sorcered dies next round. This is the kind of risk wizard take, their low HP and dependency on spells makes them very weak when attacked, they have to compensate it somehow: with massive offensive power. PfE is not an all-or-nothing defence, is a -nothing ever- defence, it makes whoever has the spell completly inmune to such power, forcing the mage to change their spells. Now.. if we agree than all-or-nothing attacks should be blockable with -nothing ever- defences, why not add a level 2 spell that makes players inmune to death magic as well?

An all-or-nothing defense is perfectly fine against an all-or-nothing spell, which hold person effectively is.

You said it yourself. And phantasmal killer is just one more level higher than hold person, and at the same level as hold monster.

Now, is hold person really a one-hit-kill spell? no. It isn't save or die, it effectively paralises the enemy and leaves him vulnerable, 1 on 1 yes, it means death, but EFU:A is not a solo server, even a person held can be saved if his party protects him: they an draw away fire from him, kill the attackers or heal him. Hey, i've been paralised by troll shamans before, yet none ever killed me.

Now i agree most frontliners are very weak to everything mind-affecting: they have 1 or 2 will against DCs of 15. But that's the point, the wizard/sorcerer may not be able to effectively deal with waves of mobs though other means than summons (or cloud spells that last long enough, a high level alternative only wich EFU:A doesn't offer) and with the duration of summons lowered as it is, neither can it be that way. But they can deal witha  single enemy with extreme ease:warriors kill the mobs, wizards kill the bosses. Removing this capability leaves wizards as party buffers only, rarely seeing one that actually uses damage dealing spells, debuffs or summons, and even more rarely seeing such actions help.

It is fair that there us a way to protect the frontliners from this spells, specially when we talk about multiple wizards casting spells, but total inmunity is something you'd expect from a high level spell, because it is a very powerfull propiety. +5, +6.. that makes a will saving throw of 8 say, against DC of 15 when fighting strong enemies, and DCs of 12-14. That means more than half the times they will succed in the saving throw. Mind you, is a single spell that protected many frontliners, a nice bonus (when casted by a mage, not potion) and there are more things you an do to add to the fighters defence against mind spells: doesn't clarity gant inmunity as well (note it's a level 3 spell) how about some owl's wisdom buffing? a frontliner could get a DC of 9 or 10, even against a DC of 16 is saving from 75% of all spells cast, isn't that enough?

You also said that they need to match the alignment of the casters, for them to be protected, if you cast protection from evil and a good wizard casts hold upon you.. you're screwed. But then agian, how many quests have you fighting against good aligned enemes? about 10%? And even if it where more, before you start questing you can already know what you will face and use the proper protection, on PvP is a bit more risky, but all you have to do is look at the guy, his description, his RP and make a good guess, it isn't that hard considering all bad guys always wear black armor and have the power hungry voice set. Also, how often you fight a mob of combined alignements: good, netural and/or evil?

+6 saving throws against mind spells, and i defend my point.

[MrGrendel]

I disagree, entirely. Wizards/Sorcerers are the strongest of classes precicely because of that kind of power, take it away and they are support, and clerics can do better.

Your argument hinges upon this part. It fails, because wizards themselves have the ability to make sure this part of their power isn't taken away, via a dispell. Therefore, once we have realised this, what remains of your argument is:
 

Wizards/Sorcerers are the strongest of classes.

[Drakill Tannan]

Only in the opening of the post, scroll down and you'll see some good points i think.

[TheImpossibleDream]

Okay lulz! First of all. What kind of wizard worth his salt has a DC lower than 20 when he's going to attack somebody, unless it's a level 1 spell, in which case its going to be at least 18 (this is assuming you started with 16 intellect or even 15 intellect) and have proper feats for the spells your caster favors.

You sound like someone who's very inexperienced when it comes to pvp/playing a wizard in EFU. So many players have been taken down by dispel and hold. As a wizard you don't even need more than two rounds to deal 100+ damage at level 5 or even six, thats including a dispel magic cast or wand use.

The ~only~ advantage a fighter has and I mean the ~only~ one is that a wizard has to be prepared to defend himself and any wizard worth his salt doesn't walk around with his "adventuring" spell set on his own in dark allies. when you do get caught with your adventuring spell set, you should be able to, with the assistance of your companions take down your aggressor or flee.

[wcsherry]

OP,

Play a fighter next...

And then re-think your suggestion.

<3 NWN veteran

[TheImpossibleDream]

OP,

Play a fighter next...

And then re-think your suggestion.

<3 NWN veteran

He is playing a fighter now sherry hence his post lulz >.>

He's just new to the whole fighter using potions to self buff scene, you do feel you're invincible and don't know any better, until a wise wizard crushes you like an ant. <.<

[Egon the Monkey]

Actually, this inspired this "scripted power for loot" idea I had
http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/showthread.php?p=125278#post125278

Amulets that shift your Alignment to either Good or Evil for 20 minutes, but can't be removed during that time. A good way to get the drop on someone who's only protecting himself from your normal alignment, counter Paladin powers at the cost of losing access to your Evil loot etc.

Also, Wizard tip. Use Consumables Too. All my wizards carry emergency Haste, Displacement, Expeditous Retreat, Endurance, Clarity and PfX when I have them. Saves on spellslots for emergency self-buffs, and Displacement casts at a whopping L9 anyway, better than most PCs. Even if you don't brew, you can always scribe scrolls, which are better for the cheap spells as they don't incur AoOs and the extra cost isn't much.
Buy spare scrolls (expecially of L4 spells) off non-mages and have them quickslotted.