Suggestions For Dream Eater Perk

[MaximumOverDrive]

Hey i'm currently playing a Dream eater and i've heard various people.. Refer to the perk as underpowered or less useful than the other perks so I figured I'd make a few suggestions!

1) Have the nightmare power work on Blacked out PC's, and when PC's are sleeping

2)Increase the amount of times the nightmare power can be used, why? Because whilst the perks gained from the power are -very- cool, they have a very short duration, this could be countered by increasing duration, increasing the amount of times nightmare can be used (maybe infinitely at a certain level? since the perks have a very short duration, could even weaken the perks to cool things like being healed, concealment, idk. something else that is weaker but useful regardless, so that it isn't overpowered).

3) in addition to the power of their sleep spell being increased, add something that adds to the DC of the sleep spell.

4) Maybe create a cool "Nightmare" summon theme they are given, this could be very creative and flavorful and a *spoiler boon* exists from eating nightmares, could expand on that!, i know it takes work, but hey it would be pretty awesome, i know this may not be a popular idea via DMside but i have a lot of ideas bubbling and if this is found supported i have suggestions to make if a DM wants to talk to me on IRC

5)

Instead of instantly applying the Nightmare bonuses to the Eater as they use the ability (and then having them fade shortly thereafter, pointless since everything was asleep anyway), give the PC an item.  This item is stackable and when used will bestow one of the random  effects the PC would have gotten from using Nightmare before this  suggestion is implemented. Oh, and the item stacks to a maximum of 2.  Using the ability if you already have 2 will just heal you and do the  damage. Or maybe 1 max at lvl  1, 2 at 5, 3 at 8. But that sounds like a lot of scripting.

My suggestion is slightly twofold, though this part is much less  important, I think. Might be a viable workaround for everyone and their  grandmothers being immune to sleep, though. If possible, I'd suggest  that at lvl 5 or 8 the Eater strips a target of  their sleep immunity with the first casting, just like the life stealer  with negative energy.

i like this, but as he said above this would likely require some scripting and i -know- our DM's have better things to do but i'd like to suggest it regardless. I've been told from elven players "Well I guess we dont have to fear you at all since we are immune to sleep anyways" i like the suggestion that their immunity be nullified temporarily when it is used by a dream eater, or useless against a dream eater, because yes elves dont sleep, but things can be forced into a magical sleep. this could apply to many creatures immune to sleep

6) the sleep spell be made to be able to pierce things like PfE, Ghostly Visage and such since once blur potion can make you immune to everything that makes a dream eater a dream eater, not dispel the spells maybe just override them when cast from a dream eater. I also made an earlier suggestion on a higher level sleep spell which could just as easily overcome this, and would likely be a lot easier than the scripting headache from this stuff http://www.efupw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99137

Thoughts? I know this seems self serving, but after playing varying sorcerers using varying perks i feel the dream eater is immensely cool for our current setting, and doesn't have justice in strength in comparison to other perks.


I am in no way suggesting that all of these be implemented, just a bunch of suggestions that -could- be, and any of them could vastly make it better than it currently is. im loving the rp from the perk itself, but i find myself getting kicked around constantly since many things can be immune to the perk suddenly from a single potion or spell, and that it just isn't as useful as many perks.

[Stranger]

An undroppable, dissipating nightmare abstract would be interesting, and the random buff can be imbibed like a potion when needed.

I'm not sure if the scripting work is entirely needed. There's a lot on the plates of our coding dungeon masters. It's a pretty great perk as it is.

[WriterX]

I played a Dream Eater myself and I sort of agree with the above points.

While the Perk is fun to use it stops being useful on higher levels, when enemy PCs and NPCs will have sufficiently high saves, powerful spells, or other forms of protection to make your only avenue of attack useless.

Even when you do use it I agree with the point that the buffs have a mildly short duration, and since you can use the "Nightmare" only a set number of times your supposed "Trick Shot" has a very short life.

I suppose a lot depends on how you build your character, since the Dream Eater is a bit of a hard Perk to combine with other "feats". As an example, the Lifestealer is a Perk that when combined with a Melee-based Sorcerer works incredibly well, you can have a raging Behemoth, even if it has very little HP and AC.

The Necromantic Perks might not be all that powerful,  but since they have early access to the Undead, and Undead can be modified and remain with a caster after a rest, acting as his bodyguards, and some of the Perks offer incredible perks for the undead you summon the Dream Eater simply cannot compare.

The Dream Eater's Sleep Spell can be easilly blocked, with a single spell, or a sufficiently high roll. Then, even if the Dream Eater manages to use his Nightmare on a sleeping PC/NPC there is no guarantee that what he will obtain will be of ANY use to him in that situation.

It is true that you can increase the DC of the Sleep spell though GSF: Enchantment, and then the Perk itself will increase the number of HD it will influence and the DC of the spell itself, but your whole strategy then relies on you successfuly delivering modified Level 1 Spells, and then hoping that when you use Nightmare that the boon will be useful.

Now that I think about it though, the perk's benefits would be useful to a ranged or melee based Sorcerer, since the Nightmare can heal him and cause further damage, while the sleep spell causes a lot of distractions. If somebody wanted to create a "Prince of Nightmares" however, who only wishes to deliver Nightmares to his enemies through spellcasting... that's where the issues may arise.

I do not believe there is any higher level spell that can cause a Sleep Effect, other than Sleep and Color Spray, so against much tougher opponents the Perk does eventually become obsolete, during some potential events or questing.

[MaximumOverDrive]

Heavily in agreement with the above points by writer, his explanations are pretty much as clear as can be. I've played almost every Sorcerer perk available at one point or another and the only one I've felt lacking compared to the others was Dream Eater, the others all have consistent helping perks that really help their survival. Dream Eaters perks are useful only to a select amount of things, and even then, lots of such things can quickly become immune.
But yes, this perk overall could definitely use some work.

[WriterX]

Another small issue with the Sleep spell are its mechanics.

Namely, the spell will target the enemies (or allies) with the lowest HD first. This means that if you have summons out fighting enemies your own summons will always be targeted first, because they are all (as far as I am aware) 1 HD, with modified HP (HD=Levels, no?)

Even if you had GSF Enchantment, and a level 8 Dream Eater trying to help out his allies when they fight, let us say, a Deep Lizard or Cave Bear by putting it to sleep and then using Nightmare he would HAVE to cast the spell before any of his allies would be within range. Otherwise the spell could potentially target his allies in first order, leaving the bear intact.

Lastly, I believe the spell also tries to target people who are naturally immune to sleep, thus undead, elementals, constructs, etc. could soak up your spell while you try to target the enemy caster, fighters, or other living opponents.

All of that being said I like the idea of the Nightmare gathering "points" or granting physical boons that may be later used.

As an example, the Dream Eater could go into the wilds and "farm" weaker creatures for their nightmares (in this example, represented by points) and later use the points to create temporary physical boons, granting specific effects, summons, etc.

When I think about it now...

A potential fresh angle for the Dream Eater could be a pure Summoner approach. To be more precise, the use of Nightmares conjures forth an illusory "Nightmare" that the target had. Perhaps using a Nightmare on a goblin would create an illusion of a Paladin? Perhaps using it on a Devil or Demon would bring forth an Angel? Perhaps using it on Joe McHuman would conjure forth a giant spider?

Considering how many different things people can have nightmares of this could still be wildly unpredictable and very much fun, ripping out a person's nightmare and turning it into something "real".