Races & Reactions & Alignment Discussion

[Howlando]

This is a very old post that I managed to dig up:

Alignment In the EfU setting, the various alignment poles are objectively defined powers. However, this central metaphysical fact is virtually unknown to almost all characters. Instead, every character will have his or her own philosophy and morality as well as definition of terms. "Shades of grey" exists for almost all individual character's reality as much as it does for our own. "Good" can be defined by characters as anything that approximates the truth of being an objectively defined force or simply as something that is desirable (anything from a Baneite actively working to quash "goodly peoples" or an unsophisticated rogue deciding it is "good" to get money from the people he robs).

Paladins, blessed (or cursed?) with the supernatural ability to detect evil alignments, will typically understand this as a divine gift from their particular patron deity as a way to see either the mark of past misdeeds or of a fundamental evil nature. Even paladins, though, as fallible mortals in a complex universe will be forced to often make complex choices and decisions, sometimes with there being no right or correct answer.

Separate from alignment, there is also stuff that is considered by most druids and those with a druidic-influenced nature code as "Unnatural." Typically, this is stuff that these characters and NPCs believe simply do not belong in the world, and should be eradicated or prevented whenever possible.

Aberrations - Difficult to define, aberrations are monsters that share common characteristics of being extremely unnatural and grotesque. Canonically they are defined as having, "... a bizarre anatomy, strange abilities, an alien mindset, or any combination of the three." In EfU, it is speculated by some that there is some common influence or origin that ultimates defines aberrations. Aberrations are overwhelmingly, but not exclusively, evil. For example, some aberrant monsters in the Underdark (such as hook horrors) are not necessarily more evil than a ferocious wild beast in the jungles of Ymph. To most, aberrations are just another scary monster. To those influenced by a druidic or nature-based code, they are considered an unnatural blight to be eradicated whenever possible.

Animals are a natural part of the world, and are overwhelmingly neutral. Some cultures such as "Old Ways" Stargazers have a particular affinity or respect for different kinds of animals in Ymph. Most adventurers will understand different kinds of animals as a potential threat, but not necessarily the kind that deserves eradication.

It is very easy to imagine some, though, that actively seek the subjugation and "taming" of the wilderness.

In EfU, "dire" animals are not considered unnatural by druids.

Constructs are typically neutral, with rare kinds being evil - perhaps because of their power source (such as constructs being powered by some kind of terrible necromantic ritual) or material (such as being formed from devil-hides).

Different kinds of mechanized constructs, such as EfU-specific "animatrons," although not truly evil may be considered by those with a nature-based code as being particularly unnatural and something to be destroyed whenever possible. Giant, EfU-specific machine-areas may likewise be considered unnatural and wrong not only by nature-PCs but by those who prefer a sort of primal, non-automated existence.

Dragons are rare in our setting, but do occasionally exert considerable influence. Although dragons run the gamut of alignment, in EfU they will mostly be evil as for story-telling purposes they are better that way.

Elementals are canonically defined as, "...a being composed of one of the four classical elements: air, earth, fire, or water." In EfU, we have expanded this to include other kinds of elementals representing other elements. Elementals are generally neutral. Although considered to be just another scary monster to most, druids do have an affinity towards elementals and do not generally consider them unnatural.

Giants and Humanoids are often evil, but some may well be good or neutral. They are generally considered natural, but may be fought by druids as many of these races have a tendency to be a destructive influence on the wild or breed out of control. Most will consider them a scary monster.

Among even those with an evil disposition, their innate evil is typically of a lesser degree than other kinds of monsters. For example, however cruel and brutal an ogre may be it doesn't really compare to the extreme evil of a powerful devil or undead.

Fey are supernatural creatures with a particular connection to nature. They have a kind of other-worldliness to them, but are considered as an accepted part of the natural world by druids.

Some are greatly feared, whereas others are considered by many as creatures of delight. They are creatures of folklore, myth, and mystery.

Planar are those creatures that originate from the planes. Typically they exemplify their particular alignments. Typically any creature of planar-origin will be considered as unnatural by druids, but may be tolerated temporarily.

Celestials are creatures of great virtue and inner goodness, will deeply respected and revered by those of a goodly disposition. However, there is a degree of peaceful conflict among those of more lawful/neutral/chaotic dispositions.

Fiends are those creatures of a wholly evil disposition, notably devils and demons. Fiends are considered both unnatural and very evil. They are feared and hated by most. They greatly desire the souls of mortals, which are essential as food and as material for the raging Blood War between devils and demons that occupies much of their attention and energy.

Devils ("infernal creatures") are of a lawful disposition, and consequently can be considered more predictable and controllable. They are nevertheless deeply dangerous and association with such creatures (whether as through some manner of infernal pact or conjuration) is an evil act.

Demons ("abyssal creature") are chaotic and unpredictable. Association with them is deeply evil and unnatural. They are more numerous than devils.


Undead are those creatures that were once living, but now are not. The vast majority of undead are both evil and unnatural. However, there are some incredibly rare exceptions.

The process of creating undead is likewise almost always considered both evil and unnatural, however there are complex methods - beyond the reach of most PCs - where through complicated rituals a spirit might be induced to, on its own, arrive in order to provide protection or wisdom. This process may not necessarily be objectively evil. Summoning spirits through conjuration-based bindings as well as the "Animate Dead" spell are depraved and wholly evil acts.

I was not able to find the other thread I was thinking of describing why some things in the EFU universe are objectively evil. But in essence, if "intent" is all that mattered than the game would (in my view) rapidly break down.

In essence - I think it's great to roleplay shades of grey. I think it's great to roleplay a deluded necromancer who thinks that animating a zombie is a lovely thing to do, or even an 'ends-justifies-the-means' type who believes the unbearable present situation justifies animating an army of dead to take on the aberrant menace.

However, good/evil/law/chaotic need to be forces in our setting - and these things need to be objectively determined.

[zDark Shadowz]

I agree that intents shouldn't affect alignment, d&d has been about the actions creating the shift. 'Ends justify the means' means that even if you had good intentions, performing evil acts should result in that evil shift. A paladin can have hostile thoughts, but if they don't act on them, they're fine. Some people can have off days too.

I've found it hard though myself, acquiring evil points for simply questing with evil people (I don't have detect evil!), seeking out gold (punished for intent without asking my intent or seeing what I do with my gold?) Etc etc, but I've never acquired good points for saving a baby, freeing slaves etc during DM events.

So much so I've felt there's a large predisposition to awarding people evil points over awarding good points.

[putrid_plum]

Aberrations - Difficult to define, aberrations are monsters that share common characteristics of being extremely unnatural and grotesque. Canonically they are defined as having, "... a bizarre anatomy, strange abilities, an alien mindset, or any combination of the three." In EfU, it is speculated by some that there is some common influence or origin that ultimates defines aberrations. Aberrations are overwhelmingly, but not exclusively, evil. For example, some aberrant monsters in the Underdark (such as hook horrors) are not necessarily more evil than a ferocious wild beast in the jungles of Ymph. To most, aberrations are just another scary monster. To those influenced by a druidic or nature-based code, they are considered an unnatural blight to be eradicated whenever possible.

This, this, and MORE of this!!  No more cuddling tentacles like it ain't no thang and then go off to slay those EVIL BAD GOBLINS!!

[Stranger]

The Exile Collective's recommended alignment is "non-Good" for a reason.

But I will pose that an evil character can still be heroic, self-sacrificial, or even contributing to a cause more important or worthy than themselves—than even their own soul. Good and evil are cosmic forces with very static definitions, very static stances. They are not measurements of "right" or "wrong;" that is entirely a matter of character perspective. Most compelling villains, after all, believe they are doing what is best for the world.

Of all the factions on EFU, the Brotherhood of Ascension had the most moral resonance with me; I fell in love with these Chaotic Neutral terrorists who placed freedom as the highest possible virtue and value.  And I can say with certainty that this faction did many things which would've warranted "evil points" on the alignment axes. That doesn't change how I feel about them. Nor could something as trivial as alignment convince me to not join a faction I otherwise love.