Reduce call lightning damage

[LordOfBones]

So, I was thinking that call lightning might now be brokenly overpowered in its current form.

Previously while it had the potential to deal huge damage, well above the standard it was kept in check by the requirement for rain and the fact that protection from elements could protect you from the brunt of it.

In the current build call lightning now does the following.

Call Lightning works only in Wilderness areas (Caves, etc - representing  an actual cave in, not a lightning storm) causing 1d8 bludgeoning  damage/level

Which honestly makes it more powerful than third tier spells and other evocations cast by other caster types by a huge margin, despite being a third circle spell. This also opens the door for someone with GSF evocation and empowered spell to do up to 108 physical aoe damage at level 9. That's like an aoe harm spell that you can't protect yourself against.



What do we have to stop some of this damage? Blur, stoneskin, reflex save (Which is pretty high)

And the most powerful thing about this spell is that it can be cast without restriction almost anywhere in the current setting.

I suggest one of the following changes

1) It be made either acid damage (So we can use elemental wards to defend against it and acid is the most associated with earth)

2) It be put back to its default d6 damage as it was originally (Or even D5 per level because really, you can't defend yourself from bludgeoning very well)

Just my thoughts on the subject before an air domain cleric destroys the world!

[VanillaPudding]

The reflex save is identical to any other third level spell.

It is reduced by all forms of physical resistance alongside any damage immunity that was not mentioned previously.

It is primarily carried by classes that are more of "hybrid" casters than a Wizard or Sorcerer, and thus the DC will often be lower (excluding specific concepts)  and the number of times it can be cast is almost always lower as well due to the same effect.  To simplify that point, you'll notice a far greater number of Wizards or Sorcerers with a 20 primary stat over Druids/Clerics.

Your example here of

aoe harm spell that you can't protect yourself against.

is also incorrect, as you yourself mentioned a small portion of the protections against it and I added some in for you.

I think this spell is fine as it is.

[LordOfBones]

You will rarely if ever find a piece of equipment with 5% DI against a physical damage type and that is a negligible defense. Nothing stops druids from being 16 starting wisdom and taking spell focuses, it is a choice some choose to not do.

The wizards/sorcerers who do 20 int/cha are glass cannons with no hit points, druids inherently have double the maximum amount of hit points that they receive as a base as do clerics.

[Knight Of Pentacles]

Druids have a number of roleplay draw backs that aren't taken into account.  Many of us have received spell failure for simply doing druid stuff in the Machine.  Perhaps limit call boulders to "natural" areas, however.  Since you can't really call boulders down inside buildings or the Machine.

[Ebok]

The Number of spells each day is something you have to take into consideration. Sorcerers and Wizards naturally have a much more abundant supply of spells then Druids.

I see no reason at all that a Druid shouldn't be able to toss a couple powerful evocation spells around. It's not like they have other options for powerful damage dealing spells at every other level... like nearly all other primary spell-casters.

If a Wizard can cast Haste, Fireball Fireball, Combust Combust Combust, with Empowered Endurance up and a 18 Constitution base, with nearly at will invisibility and spells to counter nearly everything else. Then I see no reason why a druid, who can only cast while not wild-shaped, cant drop three Cave-ins on a dude. The saving throws are identical to every other widely used evocation spell in the game.

I've never been a big fan of, I drink these potions to be immune to you. Dont want to suck a Cavein? KD the caster like everyone else. Or if you're a caster? Counterspell.

[Ebok]

Druids have a number of roleplay draw backs that aren't taken into account.  Many of us have received spell failure for simply doing druid stuff in the Machine.  Perhaps limit call boulders to "natural" areas, however.  Since you can't really call boulders down inside buildings or the Machine.

"Call Lightning works only in Wilderness areas (Caves, etc - representing  an actual cave in, not a lightning storm)"

If the spell works in Sanctuary or the Machine, that is probably worth bug reporting.

[Mountains of Madness]

It's worth noting Sanctuary is actually also in a cave/cavern.  Though it maybe shouldn't work in the Machine, you're right.

[LordOfBones]

Druids and Wizards get the same amount of spell slots, looked it up.

Since when do druids not get powerful offensive spells?

If you want to compare druids and wizards offensive arsenal I will have a go at that.

Druids have

Entangle, Grease, Flame lash, Flame Strike,Infestation of Maggots, Hold Monster, Ice Storm, Inferno, Slay Living, Vine Mine, Spike Growth, Wall of fire in addition to call lightning by and at level 9.

Entangle/grease druids are immune to on their own, everyone else makes a save vs becoming immobile or even prone every round while being slowed by 50% at all times these are first circle and when entangled your dexterity is put down to three - extremely mean for follow up evocation.

Flame lash is kind of a joke but you don't risk an attack of opportunity using it as you would with combust.

Infestation of maggots - This spell is amazing, if you fail the initial fortitude save you are afflicted with a spell that for 15+ rounds tries to take d4 of your constitution every round. While you can use potions of health to stop it that takes time you will be needing for other things when fighting a druid, this spell can kill you by itself if left unchecked.

Call Lightning - d8 physical damage per level, the only spell that comes to mind that drops a good amount of physical damage in one round. For good reason, physical damage from spells is ridiculous in large amounts such is why Bigbies 8th circle and 9th do their huge damage over rounds.

Dispel - Dispels you

Ice storm - both sides have, no saving throw damage is moderate but can almost entirely be negated by abjurations.

Spike Growth - Large area of effect ground control spell, you take damage and if you fail your save your move speed is reduced until you rest or use very rare freedom of movement consumables. The move speed debuff is cumulative as well. [Kite all day]

Hold Monster - Long term holding for the FUN

Flame Strike - D6 damage per level half fire damage half divine, it has a reflex save and comes as a 4th circle spell. This is nowhere near as powerful as call lightning due to protection from elements absorbing half, its d6 scale and that you need to be level 11 to empower it though if you were, call lightning would still be the stronger spell for that level.

Slay Living - Touch attack, Fort save, you die. 5th circle

Vine Mine - Slows you down like spike growth if you don't use it for something useless.

Inferno -  2d6 damage per round, for rounds per level no saving throw 5th circle

Wall of Fire - It burns, for 4d6 fire damage to anything that attempts to pass through it. 5th circle

Quite an arsenal for offensive spells without even tapping into all the other things druids have going for them.


Wizards have

 combust, magic missle, acid arrow, lightning bolt, acid breath,Vampiric touch, Hold Person, Slow, fireball, scintilating sphere, dispel, ice storm, Fear, evards, phk, wall of fire, ball lightning, cloudkill, cone of cold, firebrand, hold monster by and at level 9

Magic Missile - Small time damage dealer, shield spell blocks

Combust - Touch attack required, will get you AoO'd, does 2d6 + CL in damage with no save on initiation, every round thereafter you make a reflex save and take d6 + CL in damage upon failure, make the save and the pain ends. 2nd circle

Acid Arrow - Waste of space 2nd circle

Lightning Bolt - This is actually a decent spell, I like it a lot even though I never find a practical way to use it. d6 electric damage per level, jumps through targets in a straight line so you don't hurt yourself. 3rd circle

Acid Breath - d6 acid damage per level, except since its third circle you can empower it to do more damage than cone of cold at the level you would be casting cone of cold. Go figure. 3rd circle

Vampiric Touch - Vampiric touch, steals hp gives the wizard temp hp, only dangerous to the wizards familiar.

Hold Person - Paralyzes the victim so the wizard can have FUN (Or fret over their inability to beat you with the spells they have prepared and run away, unlike druids who can turn into a bear and maul you while your powerless wizards aren't very brawny) 3rd circle spell

Slow - Slows movement by 50% upon failing the save, lowers ac by 2 for said duration. Countered by haste, a potion everyone has or should have. 3rd circle spell

Fireball - Bread and butter 3rd circle offensive, it has that big weakness all evocation spells have, elemental wards. 3rd circle spell

Scintilating Sphere - Same damage and circle as fireball, with half the range? What? d6 per level, 3rd circle.

Dispel - Dispels you

Ice storm - both sides have, no saving throw damage is moderate but can almost entirely be negated by abjurations.

Fear - Mindward, sure. 4th circle

Evards Black Tentacles - Blur negates 75%, no longer paralyzes on a failed roll but, hey grabs your feet maybe. Drink a cure serious after your blur, you'll be fine. 4th circle

Lesser Missle Storm - Spreads among targets, EFU reduced its damage, is blocked by the shield spell in EFU. 4th circle, does magic damage, we like magic damage so this spell is alright 1 on 1 as long as the enemy doesn't have any of the many ways of getting shield charges to thwart us wizard kings.

Phantasmal Killer - Pretty horrible death spell if you ask me, mindwards block it, has multiple saves - I would pack this if I was a GSF illusionist with a love of fighting rogues. 4th circle

Wall of Fire - Same as druids, 4th circle as well.

Ball Lightning - Terrible, its like missile storm except elemental wards eat it like candy and every ball has its own saving throw. 5th circle

Cloudkill - Kind of a joke for a death spell, since it will only kill things you really shouldn't be using it on over another spell. 5th circle

Cone of Cold - Shoots cold at things, does as much damage as the third circle acid breath for a 5th circle spell, its nice if you get charges of it but casting it yourself is a waste.

Firebrand - Ouch, but- hurts as much as a fireball as it does d6 per level and we aren't going to make level 11. Whats the benefit? You don't blow yourself up at point blank. 5th circle spell

Hold Monster - Wizards get this 2 levels later than druids, since druids don't get hold person after all.

All hail our wizard buffbot overlords?


SUMMARY


There is no spell in the game that puts out such raw physical damage instantaneously because it is absolutely broken.

Druids have some of the most powerful spells in the game!

[VanillaPudding]

I hear FE: Druids comes with free charisma saves to help

[Inquisitor]

Call Lighting (Boulders) killed my uncle.

[SN]

VP come back to playing and show people how pesky droods should be crushed.

[xXCrystal_Rose]

Beltyn's Boiling Blood :) 2d6 damage per level plus Slow effect. Almost twice the damage of Call Lightning without any area limitations to where it can be used, and it provides a status effect.

[LordOfBones]

I don't see this  Beltyn's Boiling Blood spell on any list I can find? Including the custom spell additions in mechanics changes.

[Zango_Unchained]

Boiling blood has a fort save attached to it every round. Also elemental damage, and no where near how strong equivalent inferno is.

[Paha]

You could -once again- read the suggestion guidelines. This is a suggestion, it's been made, end of story.