Remove relic guardians or make them app only

[I love cats]

Some of my greatest memories from chapter 1 include DMS having the gods express their disapproval of how certain of my clerics bastardised the faith and insulted the gods. This made clerics these very awesome powerful individuals that deserved respect.




I feel like with the inclusion of relic guardians it has allowed for a number of bizarre concepts at an outright bastardisation of many faiths. It also allows people to play worshipers of Gods that are basically supposed to be silent/no longer around like the dwarves pantheon, elven pantheon ETC. While I"m all for heretical concepts/interpretations of faith I really think such should have some absurd repercussions. Especially for example if you make a relic guardian that gets their ability from the divine, and says "Fuck the gods" or a CN Bhalite  that gets spells in spite of reinventing the dogma, calling the old followers of Bhaal heretics and of course refusing to murder.  While I am all for faithless/heretical concepts. I think that they shouldn't be able to have divine spells in all of these cases


I think Relic Guardians should be removed entirely, or be made app only.

[Charnelist]

Absolute disagree.


The relic guardian draws power from the relic they guard, not the deity. No matter what they say, no matter who they worship, no matter what they earnestly believe. Delusion is viable RP as long as it isn't godmodding, and I have never seen any godmodding in this way.


Also, Dendar is most likely going to finish her sacred task in the fullness of time, or nearly finish it. Do you /really/ want the only mechanical clerics with spells to be clerics of [insert rando much-hated deity no one wants to worship here]??


I don't.


Our setting currently holds many legitimate reasons for all sorts of extreme heresy, both of the living and the 'dead' deities. And I think none of it can be retconned.


The relics are out. Let's please not put them back in the box.

[I love cats]

Absolute disagree.


The relic guardian draws power from the relic they guard, not the deity. No matter what they say, no matter who they worship, no matter what they earnestly believe. Delusion is viable RP as long as it isn't godmodding, and I have never seen any godmodding in this way.


Also, Dendar is most likely going to finish her sacred task in the fullness of time, or nearly finish it. Do you /really/ want the only mechanical clerics with spells to be clerics of [insert rando much-hated deity no one wants to worship here]??


I don't.


Our setting currently holds many legitimate reasons for all sorts of extreme heresy, both of the living and the 'dead' deities. And I think none of it can be retconned.


The relics are out. Let's please not put them back in the box.

"Also, Dendar is most likely going to finish her sacred task in the fullness of time, or nearly finish it. Do you /really/ want the only mechanical clerics with spells to be clerics of [insert rando much-hated deity no one wants to worship here]??" 

There is plenty of deities of numerous alignments that grant spells in this setting. See Dendar as a challenge or make a non cleric/non spell cleric that wants to resurrect a dead deity. In your rambling and excuses for lame heretical concepts not one valid point was made. Shall I make a CE relic guardian of Tyr that wants to murder everyone? Original sin Tyr finds everyone guilty and they need to die. Relic Guardians and the basis they stand on are absurd and cartoonish. They do nothing but lower the standard of RP. If the issue is Dendar ate/consumed too many cool gods than either gods need to come back or this server needs a setting/deity change/rollback.

[MalkavianMilkBalls]

I ultimately disagree because simply, it limits rp. I agree that it bastardizes doctrine and allows for a lot of fast and loose rp that wouldn't be allowed, but at the same time it allows for interesting rp of a cleric of a dead god clinging to the vestiges of their faith. You bring up the point of a heretical bhaalite trying to remaking his religion into something it is not, but what is more interesting? Saying that no you cannot do that, or maybe making a traditionalist worshiper of Bhaal that condemns the heretic and sets out on a crusade of murder and death to not only destroy the blight on Bhaal's name, but also remind the world of his doctrine.


To me limiting rp because you disagree with someone's take on a concept is short sighted. Instead turn it into a chance for your own rp. Likewise the concept of Relic guardians is something that allows for nuanced and interesting rp. Otherwise there would *be* no dwarven, halfling, or elven clerics (except Servash) it would just be a dwindling number of gods, until there is only one valid god for a cleric to use, or none, and then no one can play a cleric, unless they just want to be a less useful fighter.

[zDark Shadowz]

I'd like to see other characters able to attune to the relics rather than just clerics, after heavier requirements.

Something like if it's a relic that requires 7 cleric levels to cast spells level 3 or lower, then they'd need 16+ wisdom (A +3 modifier) and 7 character levels total to make use of the relic powers.

Domains on the relic have to match something their deity would have, and the character may need to have Skill Focus: Spellcraft and +10 Consecration EFUSS (As a substitute for the 'True Believer' feat).

Relics are actually a canon thing.

TBH what bothered me a bit with relic guardians were low charisma clerics or people that weren't actively promoting ANY faith casting divine magic. Clerics not being clerics because they didn't need to worry about losing their powers.

The relic needs your worship, your care and your commitment... It's not a battery. It's an artifact that requires proper attention so that its divine essence is restored, and perhaps even empowered. Just my thoughts, and I'm aware that's just my own narrow interpretation. If people do just want to use them as divine batteries and nothing more that's their choice too.

[RagingPurpleGiant|Work]

Relic guardians are amazing. Keep those guys just the way they are.

[zerotje]

The Relic Guardians should just be frowned upon in-character, you could simply view them as frauds etc.

That Bhaalite that kept "recieving spells" (from a Relic...) obv didn't get them from Bhaal so I don't see a problem.
He was even murdered. The reprecussions come from the players instead of the Gods. And the class allows for these awesome concepts.


Pls never remove.

[Starmonger]

I cant really comment on how relic guardians work (as I have never played one yet, keep meaning too)

However relic guardians also give the dm's a way to reward clerics doing amazing things with the (usually not very good relics) by either creating unique ones (which I have seen) or destroying them etc.

If you have an issue with it, seek relics out to destroy them(in fact thats a great way to create conflict). Buy them, find them.. make a huge deal that they are heretics, hunt them and take there relics as punishment (which might be the most punishing because finding a relic of the same type can be a pain)... don't necessarily have to kill the pc... though that is also on the table.

[Ironside]

There's nothing stopping PCs from killing these heretical worshippers of things like: a sword, a gem, a statue, etc. 


EfU has had dozens of factions and groups based around heresies and they met plenty of resistance.  Why not persecute Relic Guardians?  Shouldn't their often singular status make them easier targets?  I would think "Mad Cultist: The Class" wouldn't need the inherent controversy to be explicitly stated, but maybe I am wrong? 


I am not keen on making Relic Guardians app-only, but I will say that if I see them (and to a lesser extent, clerics) behave as wordless, dogma-less, buffbots then I will be more than happy to deduct exp and retire PCs. 


As an aside: Please stop making "remove content" threads.  An incredible amount of work goes into efu's various systems, and we're not going to just blanket remove huge things just because you don't like them.