New PvP rule/New implementation for subdual

[Book Of Hours]

From what I've personally seen, FDing your enemies leads to two things, not having enemies anymore. And also often you don't get new ones since players aren't so fond of engaging if they don't think their PC will get mercy from a PC they perceive as much more powerful than there's.

This isn't to say that FDs should never happen, because there's a time for them. But to be honest, just doing what makes IC sense is often counter-productive.

FDing doesn't only kill PCs, it can actually kill conflict, not encourage it.

[DwarvenWhore]

People seem to be ascewing from my general point. FD's sometimes make sense. Fact! FD's sometimes are necessary - Fact!

But to go into combat in full subdual mode is just spiteful. As I said, I was a little pissed about my own character, yet another of the Aberrants involved was also FD'd straight away after being subdued while the rest were allowed at least to march to Mistlocke and be "sentenced". Why couldn't this option have been given to ALL involved?

My point is simply, promote at ALL times possible for FD to be reduced so that when an FD DOES happen that it is severely significant. And the options that I gave promote this fact. Because contrary to what some say on here, I do honestly believe that FD is just seen as an "I win" scenario... And has 0 thought or significance put into it by a large amount of players.

I've had characters FD'd with alot of forethought but into it. Some players are great for this. While others just FD without significant cause or necessity but out of spite because "they're losing" or "if I can't win, you can't".

[Lenthis]

Death it happens, actualy it will always happen. There is no point where you are Exempt from being perma killed. Every quest you do, every time you log in. You may be inches from your character ending. Like in real life, you can be shot in an dark hall and robbed, or they could beat the shit out of you leaving you there robbing you.
 
EFU you can die at the drop of a hat, its up to you to make it not happen.
Allies, Networks, spys, investments, and, other things can save you. You know instead of hording coin toss it at allies, and invest in them, make them see you as someone important to keep alive, as you provide for them.
 
Perhaps if you had an extra ally amougst the horde of murderous city goers, you would have had another moment of life.
 
 
My 2 cents

[Spiffy Has]

I believe this has been adequately discussed. Yes, it was probably a jerkish, and OOCly unkind thing to do, but I imagine if a man is about to die,  he'll strangle the first thing that comes his way.

Sorry about your PC, but you can always make a new one! <3

[Big Orc Man]

To DwarvenWhore -

I understand where you're coming from.  I don't know the specifics of this situation, but in general, I absolutely agree that there is a play-to-win tendency that rears its head now and then and can result in some unpleasant situations.

Those players tend to accrue some rather bad karma (with other players) which sees them finding less mercy on their own.

The issue with trying to further litigate those situations is that it creates a situation in which the DM team breathes down the necks of players about all these little details, and comes to consensus agreements about every in-game event.

That, at least in my opinion, creates an us-versus-them mentality where the DMs are seen like auditors, and it opens the door to a lot more concerns about favoritism/so-and-so-DM-hates-me/etc.

It sucks that unfortunate things happen, but barring clear rules violations, we prefer to err on the side of player empowerment which, while it may result in some unpleasant situations, creates a greater sense of freedom and fairness for the server at large.

In a sense, we want to be seen as guides and co-players, not as police.

[Questing Knight]

Having been present for the situation you spoke of, I can tell you that the PC who was killed straight away specifaclly reqeuested to simply be killed if they were to die as they did not want to drag it out.  This was a players OOC decision and nothing to do with misuse of FD etc.

[Halfbrood]

You've stolen my forum avatar.

[The Old Hack]

BOM: I completely support this attitude. The less DM intervention is required, the more easily the PvP will flow. I do agree that frustrating and bad PvP may tempt in the other direction, but often these things can be resolved simply through allowing yourself to cool down and then speak calmly and politely with the other players involved. It may turn out that they have an entirely different viewpoint and that it seemed fair to them, or even that it was a complete screwup on their part and that they regret what happened.

Speaking to someone in the heat of the moment is almost always a bad idea and is to be avoided. I know this from bitter experience and even these days I sometimes still make that mistake. But somehow it never seems to help dialogue or comprehension very much to call your opponent a dick, question his/her parentage or throw accusations of griefing around. :(

As to switching modes in mid-combat and running around and FDing subdued enemies, yes, it is questionable and has a horrible tendency to escalate, but remember that nothing kept the enemy from being on full damage from go in which case the subdued characters would almost certainly have been dead anyway. Still, as BOM says, what goes around has a tendency to come around. (The argument that "the enemy will just come back and kill me tomorrow anyway" never held much water with me because I would rather cut someone a break and later discover I was wrong about it than kill someone too readily and ruin her or his fun.)

~tOH.