Full-plate boost

[Spiffy Has]

As long as the bonus to full plate solely goes to pure fighters, I am for this.

[Ebok]

And full plate + shield is -10

I always had the impresion full plates were for noobs. (Icly) if you weren't skillfull enough to use armor effectively, you had the expensive but noob option of buying a full plate and get the AC "The easy way".

You need to read my post next time.

If you take VP's suggested chainmail+1 build, and put that Pc into full-plate they'll lose no ac. If you find a way to give that same pc 3 more tumble, it has 1 more ac then the chainmail+1 setup and the same ac as the buffed chainshirt build. Add in Fullplate+1 and you can get one higher still.

This claim that light armor is more skillful is absurd, the only reason lighter armor can top out over plate-mail is the tumble skill. My underdark watchman (abeit it was a ranger/rogue/fighter) had a standing there: 28ac =10+2(tumble)+3(+1H.shield)+1(dex)+8(Plate) +1(dodgeboots)+1(ring)+1(amulet)+1(dodge)

The only +1 Fullplate drop that should be considered would be a Pure Fighter Only, Do not use with UMD.

[Drakill Tannan]

Not talking about mechanics here. Theorically IRL light armor is better, a heavy armor makes your wounds less severe, but makes it harder to dodge attacks. Light armor allows you to avoid the attacks allotgether while still allows you some messure of degree.

IG, the skill necesary to get +7 AC with heavy armor is equal to a below average if you have a full plate armor. Using a medium armor you can reach the same, but you need to have above average (14) dexterity. My last bard PC reached an AC of 22 (not counting small stature but counting a+1 shield) with medium armor, unbuffed. A Fighter getsthe same with 12 DEX full plate and a +1 shield. More expensive equipment, but that requires less skill (Less dex, no tumble), illustrating my point. A PC skillfull in the use of heavy armor (like yours) is very specialised (and really, the only difference is the tumble).

My point was, heavy armor is the choice for the unskilled (no more than 12 DEX, no tumble) PCs. It can be the choice of a PC that can make the best use of it.

Back to topic

How about allowing pure fighters to negate armor check penalty? That is, when wearing full plate, they get +8 Tumble. This way if they invest in tumble (not a light investment considering their 2 skillpoints per level) by level 7 they will get +1 AC without the need of a special FTR-only armor, and also be able to maximise the use of other armors.

[Nuclear Catastrophe]

You make a lot of assumptions regarding build and equipment here.  Will you really get +2 tumble if you're wearing chain and using a large shield?  That's an awful lot to get over.  

On EfU, your Average AC with full plate, a tower shield and 12 dex =  22.  + 2 amulet/ring, and maybe even +1 tumble if we're going down that route (really?) = 26 with dodge as a feat.
Flanked, the AC is 25.  

This allows a character 2 free points to spend in strength or intelligence or whatever.

Your 10 + 6 (+1 chain, rather common) +2 (tumble) +3 (a +1 shield) +1 (dodge feat) +2 (amulet / ring) +2 (dex) = 26 AC
Flanked, the AC is 24.

This assumes you've gone with a dexterity based build, which will always have nice AC... but you've not spent your points in strength or intelligence or constitution.  Ergo, the above built fighter with STANDARD full plate is still likely to be superior.

What's wrong with having magical chain be on a par with full plate -anyway-?  If we improved full plate, all we would see then is a return to seeing every single character on EfU take 12 DEX to be mechanically superior.

Nowadays, you can take 12 or 14 or even 16 DEX as a fighter and still consider it a viable alternative to ENSURING you get Full Plate later on.

[Knight Of Pentacles]

I agree that PURE fighters need a small boost as really a fighter multiclass is usually more effective mechanically (Notably fighter/rogue with killer UMD that can use wands like crazy).

[Egon the Monkey]

The other thing is the cost/rarity. If you're running a 14 Dex Chainshirt build, you can get hold of one right at the start of character creation. Then you just look for a good upgrade with AC or skills. If you have at least 16 DEX, Mage Armor+grace is equal in AC to a +1 chainshirt once buffed and you can use cloth armor with whatever bonuses you like. All you need is a nice cheap Mage Armor Wand or potions for when you have no mage handy and you're not wearing your "unbuffed fighting" chains. On the other hand, Fullplate is only really found as hero loot, DM loot, or from elite quests. If you want it otherwise, that'll be 4000 gp and won't even come with any save/skill bonuses.

You might lose 1 dmg unbuffed on a 16 DEX build instead of 16 STR, but when you're buffed that hardly matters because you have the same AB and you're taking less damage. If you want to know why chainshirt or Mage Armor builds are so good, take a look at some of the halfling crushbots that use them.

What I would suggest is more +1AC Halfplate or +2AC Bandmail. Why? Because Clerics can't buff those further than anothr +1. Joe Fighter though would still get 9 AC. Fullplate would stay rare and powerful as it's more buffable than the other stuff. As a side bonus, we'd see PCs choosing to use bandmail other than the duelist's stuff.

[Sword_Saint_Legacy]

Why, by that logic, you would be saying Gold Dwarves with naturally low Dex are unskilled XD.
 
 
And of course the alternative for getting full plate from DM's/Heros/whatnot is to make it yourself ICly, using the Metalworking skill and resources collected from the land... and alot of time. Perhaps even with the help of multiple people with diffirent trade skills as well (Like Consecration or Alchemy.)
 
Essentially, if you want cheaper, more effective (insert object here), you should be affecting the IG economy to facilitate it.  And don't say "But the DM's would never go for that" because they are reasonable and while they might put ingame obstacles in the way, they will most likely not put OOC obstacles in your path.

[The Beggar]

Don't forget that Dodge and Dex AC is variable in combat, unless you have the Uncanny Dodge feat. (only with two classes, or a specific cleric specialty domain.) Flatfoots beware.

Fighter in full plate has a more stable AC under most all circumstances.

Oh: Against any changes.

[PanamaLane]

I'd add that if your player is around long enough and doing a good job with his RP or whatever and he goes on DM quests and impresses with something more then a sound mechanical build, then there is no doubt you'll end up with a custom suit of chain or full plate specifically for your character as a reward. Mechanics shouldn't be the reason your armor rocks. Rocks should be why your mechanics are good. But what do I know? My mechanics are never good. <_<

[TakenByVisions]

Don't forget that Dodge and Dex AC is variable in combat, unless you have the Uncanny Dodge feat. (only with two classes, or a specific cleric specialty domain.) Flatfoots beware.

Fighter in full plate has a more stable AC under most all circumstances.

Oh: Against any changes.

You mean like the fighter rogue builds being discussed here? :)

[Egon the Monkey]

@Sword_saint_Legacy.

The DMs put a lot of OOC obstacles in players' paths. it's no bad thing, they do this both for game balance reasons and so they don't end up building stuff for any old flash in the pan PC. Examples such as merchant NPCs not paying over 15GP for items, the ICly ridiculous cost of simple furniture from an NPC etc. They have have said before that they don't want to supervise everyone using Metalwork to make things, nor turn this place into a scripted crafting server. I have got some fullplate upgraded once, and I was playing a faction PC with a focus in engineering and who'd personally arranged for the faction workshop to be upgraded.

@PanamaLane
The point is that you don't need to rock out to get powerful chains. But to get even bog-standard heavy armor requires crushing or DM loot. Even getting halfplate is a significant investment or bit of luck for a newer PC.

[petey512]

A small DR added to the full plate would be cool. But that'd be it.

I have a friend who's been playing DnD since he was like 8 years old. He usually changes the rules with full plate by making the AC only like, 4 but with a DR/4.

Of course, implementing this is likely impossible, and everyone would probably freak out.