Make 20 Tumble give +3 AC

[derfo]

I think it's a good way to make it so that you don't just get tumble to 10 for ac for 14 to avoid the AOOs.

[Pup]

I'm with the 25 tumble, as it requires both skill dedication and item use.

[Disco]

I would dislike this. The idea of a person in leather armour being better protected than a person in a fullplate is silly.

[Egon the Monkey]

It's not silly, it's there. Fullplate = 8 + 1 AC, +1 if you have INSANE tumble and then you're probably not using a shield either, to keep the penalties for Tumble down. So +10, but most likely +9. Leathers can be 2+2 Mage Armor + 6 DEX +2 Tumble. So, +12 max, and that's not hard with 18 DEX. I think that the next Rumpclaw-esque build having even MORE AC would be just a boon to powergamers. D20 is odd in that it counts "shot misses" and "shot absorbed by armor" as the same, unlike say in Fallout.

On the other hand, bonuses that are NOT Dodge don't stack up to mad AC. However, they could add flavour to subptimal builds by allowing a fencer PC to rely less on buffs/equipment. A Shield AC bonus from Tumble for rogues and bards (but NOT Monks) would mean you could get away a little better without a shield, but it still wouldn't be as good as having a lump of wood to hide behind.

[One_With_Nature]

More monk ac plz

[The Beggar]

I like it from the standpoint that I like to play dex based characters, but I don't think it needs any fixing from what it is now because:

Dex based builds buff both AC and AB from one stat boost - nice. Said high AB (low damage) is very effective through feats (KD, Disarm, etc).

Tumble actually is already usable above 10 ranks - just not mechanically usable in combat. Tumble specialists can do things and go places non tumblers can not. Having had a tumbler, and done those things, it's very cool.

IMO it also just allows already strong builds to get more boost to AC, that with uncanny dodge stacks with everything else.

Leave it like it is.

[Coldburn]

Mechanically, I do believe DEX builds could use a boost. The AC argument that DEX builds can get equal or slightly-greater-than AC is completely and utter nonsense, since every point you spend on Dexterity is one less to spend on Constitution (or any other Stat).

However The Beggar makes a valid argument as well that dedicated Tumblers get enviroment bonusses with skill checks.p

That said, I think there's one important thing to bear in mind:

Would 25 Tumble adding +1 AC break the game? No.
Would it encourage more Dexterity builds allowing for more flavor? Possibly yes.

[Decimate_The_Weak]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard this...

When caught flat-footed, you lose your dexterity bonus to AC. Therefor, a fighter using full plate (no shield, no AC boosting items), would have an AC of 18 against someone catching them flat-footed or being flanked.

And, a dexterity build, using hide armor, would only have 13 AC (15 if they have 10 points in tumble).

So, if this is true, plate does serve another purpose.

[Howlando]

I don't think it's worth taking the time to implement this even if it was of dubious value.