Two Suggestions/Reminders

[Porkolt]

More institutionalized PCs please.

[12 Hatch]

I think one of the difficulties with avoiding flash-in-the-pan characters is that, often, a character is planned as an institutional character, but then certain IC opportunities arrive that the character just wouldn't pass up.

That, coupled with a lack of survivability/slipperiness, can often render what would have been an institutional character a flash-in-the-pan one.

I definitely agree, though, that more "stability" characters would be very beneficial, but there is certainly a trade-off that comes with that.  The bravery vs. survivability slider has to be calibrated just right, and sometimes errors happen!

[Wildlings]

Coming from a player that tends toward the "longer lived" PC's, I can say that often it ends up very disheartening.

What I mean, is from 'this' side of the monitor, those that are 'flash in the pan' tend to garner more attentions then those that stick around.  Part of it is, in order to stick around you tend to do a slow build.  You gather allies, slowly build up enemies, and work diligently at perhaps what some call mundane things.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen characters come in, and a week later be dead, but the amount of 'loot' they have is astounding.
This sends a message to a lot of us that it's what the server wants.  It wants the "Flash in the Pans" not the long lived characters that may not have attacked or PvP'd every character they have ever met.

I can say on average my characters have lived 6+ months real time, and in that 6 months I don't think a single one would be called "Looted out".

So perception is the problem here.  It is perceived that if you Live fast and die hard, you will be rewarded.  Because, let's admit, on EFU the reward for most, is DM loot.

[tropic]

I agree with Wildlings. If players see more and specialized DM attention going to the so-called "flash-in-the-pan" characters, they assume that is what the DMs want to see and therefore reward. I know that I've felt this way.

Tangentially, and not to derail the thread, but the same applies to evil characters from the perspective of good players. Evil characters, and not always the ones creating oodles of conflict, tend to be rewarded by the DMs more than their goodly counterparts.

[RagingPurpleGiant]

As my rule of thumb, one that I haven't been particularly good at following myself lately is; Look at the skills that involve Charisma. If you've got a low charisma, do those badly. If you try and lie throw in some "Er-"s and "Uh-"s and "Yeah- That's right- That's how it happened"s.
 
When you try and intimidate people say something stupid. No matter how giant you are your threatening presence will be ruined when you say "Give me that gold or- uh- bad stuff might happen! All sorts of bad things! Like- uh- punching!"
 
When you try and persuade make it sound humorously unappealing; "Join me and get mountains of gold..! Although- uh- I don't really have gold yet, and there's a good chance you'll die before you get any- But if I find a mountain of gold you'll get some!"
 
Those are some pretty bad examples, but they're the best I can think of right now.

[Howlando]

I agree with Wildlings. If players see more and specialized DM attention going to the so-called "flash-in-the-pan" characters, they assume that is what the DMs want to see and therefore reward. I know that I've felt this way.

I'm sorry I don't think this is accurate.

The first and best way to earn loot is to earn it, which does mean proactivity and such.

Speaking for myself, I tend to make loot for characters that last for a longer period of time (or that is earned in some way).

Speaking someone with the perspective of the dm client, the PCs with the most loot almost invariably are those that have been around for a decent amount of time.

Tangentially, and not to derail the thread, but the same applies to evil characters from the perspective of good players. Evil characters, and not always the ones creating oodles of conflict, tend to be rewarded by the DMs more than their goodly counterparts.

Definitely not true.

Because, let's admit, on EFU the reward for most, is DM loot.

This is particularly absurd.

[Wildlings]

I can only tell you the perspective of myself, and many that I have spoken with.  

You may not agree, but you have a different perspective than the average player.  

I play this game because I love the story telling, I love the interactions with the other players.  DM loot is a bonus.  But, I can't tell you how many times I've been in a conversation that started with.. "We need to do X to get some DM loving.."

My signature says it all.  Never expect, always hope.  I don't ever expect anything from the DMs, do I hope that eventually I will somehow manage to do something that some DM will find interesting, sure.  We all do.

So perception is the problem here.  It is perceived that if you Live  fast and die hard, you will be rewarded.  Because, let's admit, on EFU  the reward for most, is DM loot.

I did say most.  You may not see it, you may not notice it, but that is what it looks like.. at least as I said, "from This side of the monitor".

[The Beggar]

I tended to follow characters (flash pan or not) that were entertaining to watch and interact with. I tended to give those entertaining and well RPd characters with goals special @ quests, altered quests, and rewards.

Since the above is in my past, I tend to have my PC follow around PCs who are entertaining to watch and interact with. Those tend to be the same sort of PCs that end up being well RPd with goals, and also get special questies and rewards.

I'll probably keep doing that, come to think of it, that being the most fun I can pack into a sometimes limited amount of play time.

Edit to Add:

Howland's own thoughts on fun characters:
http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19553

[The Beggar]

Keep finding good tidbits in old posts. This quote is at the bottom of the above linky, but I think was worth posting on it's own.

Howland said: In addition to everything above, I plan on paying particular attention to characters that work on buildings things or managing to have an impact on the game world that is longer term.

[Bearic]

I like both myself; long lived characters are fun to campaign around with, or even role play fear of, and short lived ones add spice to the older lived ones, or in themselves can do damage or help a great deal in their time. =]
 
Some times playing the monster for a short while impacts just as well as a stable good guy, and some times the long lived bad guy is only defeated by the flash in the pan sacrifice of a short lived good guy.

[RagingPurpleGiant]

Could we get a very precise definition of a "Flash in the Pan" character?
 
With my understanding of it so far I'm tempted to say that my current character is a flash in the pan sorta guy with the current definition that I'm working with; A character who does alot of interesting and noticeable stuff really fast, which causes him to get killed early on in life by people with opposing ideals. The interesting stuff being the "flash" which fizzles out very quickly because the character dies.
 
How accurate is that definition?
 
I'm always up to try and improve the quality of my characters, and it'd definately help to know exactly what to try and avoid.

[Egon the Monkey]

Speaking here as who has ran PCs lasting months more often than not, I've noticed the following things are the top deaths, and ones I try and plan to avoid.

• Boredom
• PVP losses
• Frustration

Boredom:
Often a result of making a PC with a single clear goal, and being unable to accomplish it due to lack of support, DM help or resources. The key there is to have secondary goals or be willing to change. Sure, you wanted to be a leader, but a 14 CHA PC makes a great ambitious lieutenant. You didn't plan to become a merchant, but since you've got an Inn Room with 5 slot storage, you could sell halfplates from it and then realise you could build that up to a business working out of a Guildhouse? The second example is how one of my past PCs went from scholar to merchant after the Archaeological society folded.

PVP Losses
If you go in with heavy conflict right off the bat, you're likely to get hit back at and possibly killed off fairly rapidly. If you want to avoid this, then characters than can bargain and compromise their way out and know when to switch sides (like Capricious's legendarily devious and long-lasting char Bailey Bhonn) are a good call. Or PCs that go in for indirect conflict like supplying/buffing one side covertly, or simply back off and let someone else kill their enemy first. If you want a PC to have a lot of conflict and survive, consider not having a "Death before dishonour" mentality.

Frustration
Get killed on a quest, ragequit the PC, never realise how far they could have gone. My current PC, Bill, once died 4-5 times to ridiculous "hearing past invis" glitches on Goblins, but I took the bloody-minded approach of doing everything I could to get my gear and levels back, up to hiring a L7 wizard to buff me so I could loot my pack. The best cure for this one is if you get killed from Total Bullshit; respawn or get ressed, collect your pack, and take a couple of days off from the PC. Then come back and remember why the char is fun and you're glad you didn't quit. Trust me on this, my last couple fo PCs have seen L8 come and go enough times to lag, bugs and multi-crits.

[Nuclear Catastrophe]

I'm always up to try and improve the quality of my characters, and it'd definately help to know exactly what to try and avoid.

I've liked all of your characters so far.  You attempted big things with them, and I enjoyed Bruce Almshavens existence a great deal.

With EfU, it's a case of 'who dares wins'.  The rewards for attempting risky endeavours outweigh the rewards for remaining in mediocrity forever.  Unfortunately, risky endeavours sometimes go wrong and end up with people dead.  But you're playing an ADVENTURER, not a farmer, or a goat herder.

I have always said that I believe that playing a character on EfU is like writing your own story, and has a beginning, a middle and an end.  You have to have a final goal, and a path to get there.  This could be anything.   It can take a long time to achieve, or it can be done in days or weeks.

Walking the path to getting what you want is the entertaining bit, which is why when people get to ~level 9-10 they start to drift off and get bored, as by that point they have mostly achieved all they can.