A couple of observations regarding the beginner quests

[Wrexsoul]

First of all; It's great to come back and find out this server is still every bit as awesome as it was four years ago when I left! Big props to everyone for managing to keep it alive and kicking with vigour even after such a long time. It's also really exciting to experience this entirely new setting and build.

However, I've made a couple of observations regarding the starting-out quests around the ziggurat that I'd like to share.

1) The quest the guy right next to where you first spawn offers you, that takes you to the beginner's place, is only doable by second level characters. Since this quest apparently logically "unlocks" all the other newbie delivery quests, it would be awesome if it was attainable for level 3 characters as well. In my case, I was whisked away by awesome RP the moment I got teleported in, so I never had time to do it at that point. Said RP led to me doing a quest outside the city, which got me to level 3. When I got back thinking I should check the beginner stuff out to learn to find my way around the ziggurat, I couldn't take the quest.

This ties loosely into my second observation:

2) A few of the quest givers have no way of initiating their quests short of metagaming the dialogues. In the Kingsman, talking to mr Kingsman himself mentions nothing of work in any of the dialogue options. Talking to Peters next to him presents the option "Kingsman said you had work for me, Peters", despite him not mentioning any such. The craftsman outside the craftsmans guild (or whatever it is called) has a similar dialogue where you have to had to notice the leak in the cistern to ICly ask him for work. There might be some others. In all of these cases, a generic "hello, do you have work for me?" would have been lovely, to avoid either having to metagame the dialogue options, or not be able to do the quests at all.

3) Directions from some newbie quests are also extremely vague. In the Kingsman quest of delivering laundry, you get the instructions "somewhere east of here in the refugee camp". Your journal states "it's not very close to the Kingsman" or somesuch. In reality, it's pretty much next door, through an unmarked door with a map icon saying nothing about any refugee camp. I managed to ask some folks for directions, but if there are no PCs nearby, you pretty much have to metagame it as well, to complete it. The exotic arts dealer in the market who gives you a quest to sell some frog statuettes doesn't even tell you ICly where you're supposed to sell them; His dialogue ends with "sell them to...". In your journal it says to sell them to the goblins of the gobsquat, but there are no directions at all.

These NPC dialogue issues would be no problem at all if you could ask them non-scripted questions such as "where is that?" or "do you have any work for me?", but since you can't, it'd be very nice to see clear instructions and generic work offers so that you don't feel that you "have to" metagame to get the quests done.

Since that was kinda lengthy, and messy, I'll just post the issues in a brief list here:

 - Man on top of ziggurat, very first beginner quest, not takable by level 3 characters leading to potential problems.

 - Kingsman quest of laundry delivery: No way to accept quest without metagaming dialogue unless circumstances are right. Very vague instructions on how to get to the girl to complete it.

 - Worksman outside craftmen's guild with quest to fix the hole in the cistern: No way of accepting quest without metagaming dialogue unless you have seen the leak beforehand.

 - Exotic arts dealer in the market with quest to sell frog statuettes to goblins: Doesn't tell you whom to sell to in his dialogue, instructions only in your journal. No directions at all.

These are no big deals really, but I figured it's easy to fix, and might feel important for you to know about since it regards some of the first experiences for new players on the server.

I'll let you know if I find anything else!

Cheers,

Wrex

[Porkolt]

- Man on top of ziggurat, very first beginner quest, not takable by level 3 characters leading to potential problems.

How's that? The only real extra information you receive doing the quest in question (ahaha) isn't that important, or that much of a secret.
 

- Kingsman quest of laundry delivery: No way to accept quest without metagaming dialogue unless circumstances are right. Very vague instructions on how to get to the girl to complete it.

The convo option in question refers to when Kingsman says Peters has work upon the completion of a certain other quest. That the directions are vague is good: it forces you to have to look around!
 

- Worksman outside craftmen's guild with quest to fix the hole in the cistern: No way of accepting quest without metagaming dialogue unless you have seen the leak beforehand.

No way to complete the quest if you haven't seen the leak beforehand either.
 

- Exotic arts dealer in the market with quest to sell frog statuettes to goblins: Doesn't tell you whom to sell to in his dialogue, instructions only in your journal. No directions at all.

The quest is to find a buyer for some of the statues. It's mentioned that there's probably a goblin who'd want to buy. The goblin in question is described as having a lot of these statues in his posession.

[ScottyB]

For what it's worth, we've been looking at the new player experience. It can certainly be a bit more tight, and maybe Nduru can have a generic "do you have any work for me?" option that leads to "no, but you can try speaking to so-and-so" in case you aren't able to take the quest but would still like a pointer.

[Wrexsoul]

Porkolt, thanks for the input, but what you mention wasn't really the reasoning behind me bringing this up. I gather the purpose of the beginner quests, the deliveries and such, is to introduce people to the server, show them around the main ziggurat area, and help people out with a bit of experience and gold to get started. The things I bring up basically requires people to walk an exact path of quest leading to quest, or having to visit a certain placeable, or somesuch, which in my opinion and experience as a new player to this build hinders this entire purpose.

There is also the issue of fixed dialogue options; When you cannot directly converse with the NPCs, the dialogue options offered should cover as much theoretical conversation ground as possible, especially for quests/npc's like these.

Specifically:

"How's that? The only real extra information you receive doing the quest in question (ahaha) isn't that important, or that much of a secret."

 - It leads you to the tower for New Arrivals, which is pretty significant.

"The convo option in question refers to when Kingsman says Peters has work upon the completion of a certain other quest. That the directions are vague is good: it forces you to have to look around!"

 - That a specific other quest that requires yet another quest to be done first is required for the particular quest to make sense is a rather specific condition, and it is supposed to be an introductory quest for new players. "Having to look around" might also be a bit touchy from an IC perspective - Many PCs would simply rather ask for directions at once than have to try random doors until they stumble upon the right one, in a new and unknown town.

"No way to complete the quest if you haven't seen the leak beforehand either."

 - Indeed, there could be directions. :)

"The quest is to find a buyer for some of the statues. It's mentioned that there's probably a goblin who'd want to buy. The goblin in question is described as having a lot of these statues in his posession."

 - Nothing is mentioned about any goblin, the dialogue seems a bit bugged.

Oh, while I'm at it, another thing that irked me was that upon completion of the "Engineer for a day" quest, the only dialogue options were to either persuade, or threaten for more pay. There was no option of simply saying "thank you" and being satisfied with what you got. Would be nice if such an option could be added.

I'm a bit tired and unfocused at the moment, so excuse me if this post was messy - I just wanted to clarify my reasoning behind the suggestions.

[core]

Yeah, having done the starters again recently and thinking about it from the perspective of a new player, it might be nice if some of the quests 'chained' together. Some already do (Nduru/Registration Office is great), but it might make for a more cohesive/less confusing - not that the starters are, just that beginning on a new server in general tends to be an intimidating  experience - for a brand new player if NPCs mentioned other places one might look for work when finishing up a quest.

For a new player, I think it'd really help them to start finding their way around and getting the gist of what the server is all about. We tired old vets already know the locations/where to go/what to do, but new players have no idea. Rather than looking at it as leading them by the hand for gold/XP, look at it as making a more cohesive/enjoyable experience for a new player, though I do think care would have to be taken to ensure that it doesn't feel 'scripted' or forced. The noticeboard in the Kingsman's is a good resource, but I don't think it's as involving/flavoursome as, say... Kingsman himself making an irritated aside during his quest turnin about the lack of water pressure in his fountain, and suggesting the player go check the reservoir/ask that damnable engineer what the hell is wrong!

With that said, this is a pretty minor thing. I already think the starter quests are pretty cool and give a good impression of the server.