Ability and skill checks

[ThadiusTheGrey]

As I stated in a previous thread. I have been a player of PnP RPG's for years. and one thing that I respected is dice rolls for ability and skill checks.
for example  Pc1 is Trying to buy a new sword\ blaster rifle\ rubber chicken, From Pc2:
Pc1 how much is that sword\rifle\ rubber chicken
Pc2 30 gold\ credits\Loony dollars
pc1 would you sell it for 20
(at this point Pc1 makes a barter \ persuade roll, (and we will say he scores high 18 on a D20 + his modifier )
(Now in a PnP game Pc2 makes a willpower roll( or whatever it's called)
lets say he scores low 3 on a D20+modifiers)
( because Pc2 made a lower roll  than Pc1 he will more likley to lower his price, if Pc1,s (as in this case) is that much higher he would most likely exept the lower offer

Now what am I on about?
well in dealing with other Pc on this server I have noticed that many players just ignore dice rolls, Because it may make thier Pc do somthing that the Player didnt want to do, and that is the point ! You are not your Pc,  the dice rolls are there for a reason, let them guide the actions of your Pc (you dont have to be a slave to them)

So the next time you encounter a bard on the street and he rolls a natural 20 for a perform check,  Just remember that in a PnP Rpg the Dm would tell you that that was one of the best tunes you ever heard, ( reaction could be jealousy from another bard, toe tapping, maybe even finding your self , grabing the nearest Pc and walzing down the sreet)
DONT DISS THE DIE    
( rant over)

[12 Hatch]

I think the unfortunate flip-side is that if rolls like that are voluntary, you'll tend to see people voluntarily use their best rolls and choose not to bother with those that are less-than-impressive.  Without some kind of compulsory element, people are free to cherry-pick their best attributes and ignore their worst.

Besides which, I think the fun of NWN is in translating your paper-sheet character (a bundle of stats, really) into a living, breathing character.  So instead of rolling persuade to show how high your skill is, it's much more enriching to roleplay a very persuasive fellow, complete with dialogue, mannerisms, etc.

[ThadiusTheGrey]

12 hatch  Even the couputer Pc's are after all just a collection of stats, andy the fun of any Rpg is to turn the numbers in to a Charactor that comes alive, but  as I said you dont have to be a slave to the Die , RP is more important, but  remember you are  Not the Pc, and somtimes your Pc can do somthing easily, that you yourself would be hard put to do,  Im not suggesting we should all wander around making Die rolls every 10 seconds, for every action our Pc make, so even of you try to persuade some one Via RP, it is easy for another player to ignore your well chosen words and emoting, if you dont follow up with a die roll, and even then you roll may blow the whole thing by being so low as to be laughable , I dont think this detracts from the game  I think  It puts a random element into it   and thats Fun

[Paha]

Even in best cases rolls present only numbers. Here we aim for roleplaying and power of persuasion, intimidation and deceiving through acting and using the situation to your advantage.

This discussion and speculation also has been going for the 5 to 6 years that I've played and it was never determined to have more positive effect than it would have on the negative side. I myself favor rolls in the crossroads of decisions where the encounter makes you think whether it'd be yes or no, but in PC to PC interaction I prefer not to throw them.

It cannot be enforced between PC's.

[Egon the Monkey]

There's a couple of obvious problems with "Obey the Rolls".The classic  is the situation where no roll will give you a realistic win. The L3  barbarian tries to Intimidate a fully buffed L9 Sorcerer out of some  money, gets a natural 20, manages to look like a credible threat, and  gets a heapin' helping of Ice Storm as a response to said threat. The 18 CHA Gnomish Bard Bluffs that  he's actually Duke Trenada, and he's shorter in real life. As the old  PnP joke goes "I will not keep hitting on noblewomen until I crit my  Charisma check". On the other side of things, what opposes a roll? Do  you counter Intimidate with Discipline or Fear saves, Persuade with  Persuade or Bluff (you know all the tricks)?

I find it's a lot better for immersion to play skills as showing your  character's limits. Look at your sheet and think "could my PC pull that  rousing speech off" or "Could he come up with a convincing excuse to  lower the price", or whatever. If you want a bargain and your PC has  Persuade/Bluff/Appraise, point out some (real or imagined) flaws in the  item, flatter the merchant, lie about a cheaper competitor. Use their  skills to enable RP and make things interesting for everyone involved or  watching. The price of using your skills to influence PCs is having  leverage (Eg Persuade backed by bribes/favours/blackmail/flattery) or  being entertaining (Perform backed by a funny or well-written performance or cool emotes).

[ThadiusTheGrey]

Egon  you miss the point ,   ""the dice rolls are there for a reason, let them guide the actions of your Pc (you dont have to be a slave to them)""
The point you made about the Barbarian and the mage is just such a point  , the mage is scared of the big bad Barby  so he blasts , sounds fine to me , equally fine is the mage legs it,   Im not asking for any one to slavishly OBEY THE ROLL, rather  they do have a purpose in play, along side RP,   but in the end it is up to the player how they respond

[Howlando]

This is not PnP, this is EfU. Rolls are generally for DMs only, with players being expected to appropriately play their stats. If you want to punctuate something with a roll it is optional to do so, but the other player is never obliged to follow through with any kind of reaction nor roll an opposed check.

[DnDPnPPlayer]

THis is kinda the trade off between PnP and any and every computer RPG ever made. Trade off being, a persistent world that you can log into when ever you want, and things will be happeneing vs. getting 4 or 5 buddies together somewhere and someone (personally usually me) running as a DM something they downloaded, or wrote, or whatever.
     Just a bit parallel of the topic... this is just one example of a scene that happened in PnP that I have yet to see happen in any computer game... I (as DM) had a swinging blade trapped hallway set up coming off the back of a Theif guild leader's hideout/ ornately decorated bedroom.  The Pc's found it, found it was trapped, and then decided to feed the ornately decorated furniture to the swinging blades until it clogged the swinging blades and they could walk through.... classic example of PC's coming up with solutions on the fly... they couldn't use the furniture (no way to move it to their keep, yes the party had a keep).  As DM I had to make decisisons on the fly as to what the chances were that eack peice of furniture would clog or jam the swinging blades (think of a medieval shedder having a couch or whole bookshelf stuffed into it).  It was a blast and all had fun... we still talk about that scene.  That to me is what keeps me coming back to PnP.
     Last night I wanted to play some fantasy RPG... didn't want to invite four of my buddys over on a work night... jumped online and Niven (my ranger) went on walkabout all over the isle, even going to some other islands... maybe she'll start a tour guide agency get people off the zigguart a little... either way, as soon as my wife got home from a long day at work, I logged off and spent time with her, (note  I didn't have to send four of my buddys home disappointed that they didn't get to "finish" something with their characters).
     PnP is not and never will replace Online persistent world games... and vice verse.
 
*steps off soap box*

[DangerousDan]

lol

[cmenden]

Even in PnP, I don't make players roll the social checks when dealing with each other, just NPCs.

It all depends on the gaming group. Some groups I've met at the local game stores prefer rolling more than talking even!

[tspawn35]

Arrg.. It makes me so mad when I am in a PnP group and instead of people just saying what there character says and the DM stating that you need to roll X.. The player will say I attempt to bluff him.. or I attempt to persuade them.. or ecta.. then they roll the die to see if they actually bluff them. and if the roll fails they don't if it succeeds they do... How ever the player never says what it is that there character actually said.. just that they told the dm that they bluffed them.. OK I am done ranting now... sorry

[Thomas_Not_very_wise]

If I sang Whinny the Poo and rolled a natural 20, would that of been the best tune ever heard?

No.


RP over mechanics.

[DnDPnPPlayer]

Did you mean Whinny or Winnie?
 
Both are funny.... one is punny.
 
Sorry, I guess both spellings are "correct"... I mistook Whinny to imply whine'ing... (like complaining)

[ThadiusTheGrey]

If I sang Whinny the Poo and rolled a natural 20, would that of been the best tune ever heard?

No.


RP over mechanics.

t may not be the best song, but it would certainly be the best you ever sung it  :p

[Bearic]

If I sang Whinny the Poo and rolled a natural 20, would that of been the best tune ever heard?
 
No. Yes
 
RP over mechanics. It is the best song, ever!!

I agree.
 
 
Seriously, though, I'm fine with either or and use both generally. I like being able to role things, though; especially when I can roll a 1 on lifting something and fall over. ^_^