Factions

[prestonhunt]

It may be poignant to note that this post marks the first time I have even -heard- of some of these factions.  I know I'll get slammed for missing some blatantly obvious posts somewhere, but as my time for NWN becomes less and less, I tend to base my opinions more and more on what I see in-game, rather than in OOC posts here in the forums.  No matter how fleshed out they may be, if I dont hear about them in-game, from a PC or an NPC, I'm not going to make an application to join them, or concept a character to fit in one.  I simply have no idea they exist.

[Oroborous]

prestonhunt, that seems to be because the factions all just popped up last night. I'd never heard of a single one of them or their interests, even though I'd been seeking them out for two weeks for things I wanted to do IC.

[Letsplayforfun]

Just to add to what i wrote previously: the current factions as I see them, or as my PCs might see them, well, i just don't know them. Some examples:

-Fleet: just another mercenary company? The only thing i'd ask one of their members is "If you've got ships, why the heck are you still here?" But hey, that's maybe something to investigate.


- Malatestas: I've yet to have on of their members actually show me what's the difference between a merchant labeled from the family, and the anonymous PC merchant?

I've read and re-read the faction anouncement, and well, it's just merchants and mercenaries. Beside, that's an OOC thing. My PCs haven't even heard the name of the family, or if they have, it's just another Joe the dude selling his wares.

On this faction, since it seems to be one causing this post, i think it's the kinda faction that will be known in due time, because it's the longevity that will give reknown to the name, family, organisation. You can't really expect Joe Smith the trader to suddenly attract lots of staff. Or if so, he's gotta adverstise himself, make the positions known, etc. This is a faction you join by interest, not passion.

And on a more personal note, i've played a merchant for more than a year, he's been more than successful both in riches and power, with no need whatsoever from anyone. I've played solo, had fun, never got bored, so, what's the point?


- Forgotten Flower: if i played elves (i don't like them much, should be apped imo, but whatever), that faction would appeal to me. I can imagine this isle to be perfect to seek elven artifacts, so it's clear.

- Stewards of the Ark: i've no idea what they do besides being a druidic thing. If i made up a ranger / druid or something, why would i want to join this circle rather than another, since i don't know it at all? And if they recruit IG why bother app?

- The Chauntean thing (can't remember the name): that's appealing because i know more or less the main framline will be build/protect crops, and then DMs or players can add whatever on top.

That's just my 2 cents. I just think the server is new, the factions not yet percieved as established within the isle, their main goals or even alignement not really clear, but that will settle in due time once their members will do public actions that will allow a reputation to form.

[Ladocicea]

Sorry, people think my irritation is unwarranted.

I just want to clarify something.

People aren't giving opinions when they state something blatantly untrue. Saying A IS F is different from saying I think A seems like F. Saying the DMs have just given old, "boring" factions a lick of paint and a new name is just ludicrous; you should know us better than that by now.

If there's some reason for why you don't like the factions, you have every right to think that. Just make sure you think it for the right reasons, and not because you've convinced yourself that EfU DMs are lazy, unimaginative or con-men trying to shill you with second rate material when in reality they work very hard.

I think you have to work under the assumption that the factions are interesting even if you can't find material on them, what their goals are, or find them in game (which I will fully admit is a problem and certainly my fault). I mean, why else have you been faithfully playing EfU for so long, if you find what we do so boring?

[Oroborous]

If people hold an opinion, with all due honesty, they hold it for a reason.

You need to give them a reason to change that opinion, rather than telling them they're not entitled to those opinions which they formed because all the evidence available to them.

Not that you can please everyone, but really. The irritation is poorly directed in my opinion.

[iBard]

PCs should run the militia in game, but they should also have NPCs in the militia to provide support. They should have some NPCs to offer their support--honestly--the only offer I saw so far came from the Stygians rather than a *single* NPC in the city. It was so player driven, that interest and activity has been extremely low in what is typically a very attractive faction for people to join.

I must agree with this. At the moment, there are two volunteer militia NPCs, and I'm not even sure if they're the same militia as the one run by PCs. I have attempted to get more characters to join, but everyone seems to have their own agenda.

Thinking about it, would a militia, quite well known have 10-12 soldiers?

PC run factions are excellent. And so are DM factions. But players like to have a try at organising something themselves, instead of just falling into line.

[I can has fun?]

Wherein I declare myself a whiner...

prestonhunt, that seems to be because the factions all just popped up last night. I'd never heard of a single one of them or their interests, even though I'd been seeking them out for two weeks for things I wanted to do IC.

I'm still waiting to hear why a PC organized event which had been in the works for weeks was chosen as the moment we get introduced to a bunch of new NPCs who had nothing to do with any of what was planned.

The purpose of that event was to organize and elect the PC government. At this point, I'm not clear on whether or not there even is such a thing anymore. I do know this: I feel like the time I spent IC trying to get that project off the ground was completely wasted. I know that other PCs are just as upset about this as I am because I was getting flooded with tells about it. I also know that there are many other PCs who are unhappy, but are taking a 'wait and see' attitude.

From my personal sample, there is a significant number of people who were unhappy about what happened yesterday. I have never had so many tells at once, all over the same issue. I don't see any of those PCs speaking up here, and I know exactly why.

These days, anyone who makes a fair criticism of this server is immediately branded "a whiner" and their legitimate issue gets lumped in with all the other ridiculous complaints people come up with. Other PCs who have exactly the same criticism in private, but who don't want to publicly appear to be taking a position contrary to the DM team, pile on.

I understand that the DMs get disillusioned with seemingly endless gripes and complaints, but some of them are legitimate and worth considering. Two years ago, these issues were dealt with and resolved almost as soon as they arose. Today, people are so afraid to get on the wrong side of a DM that they just conform to whatever happens, whether they like it or not.

I don't think last night's event was fair to the players who put their time into trying to make something work, and somebody needs to speak up about it or else nothing will get resolved on this issue. Call me a whiner if you like, I really don't care. I've been called worse by better.

It is extremely discouraging to see weeks worth of role-play and set-up go completely down the toilet because the NPCs decided to finally show up and crash the party after weeks worth of silence. Why couldn't that have been done at a separate event? Why wasn't there any communication or coordination with the PCs involved beforehand? How about just a heads up?

It's bad enough that we have to fight with other super-powered PCs (who have NPC guards of their own, thankyouverymuch) just to get something accomplished. That event was the culmination of just about every PC-driven attempt at government since the first day of EfU:A. If the DMs are just going to come in and take it over, there's really no point in trying.

Please, let's come up with a standard procedure for organizing events which applies equally to DMs and PCs so that we can move past this issue once and for all.

[iBard]

Even if it is a little blunt, I think the above post whacks the nail on the head, concerning last night's event. Although I have faith in the DMs (after all, they've made this place incredibly fun all of the time I've been here) last night's meeting did seem to look like all the work that'd been done was being replaced.

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't -think- that is what is going to happen. No-one could overlook the work that the PCs overlooking the government and militia have done, as it is a brilliant (if a little patchy) achievement.

I don't think NPCs should be completely be excluded from the government, as such is a silly idea. Just that the NPCs should have approched the government in a different fashion. Perhaps approched the PCs involved and asked them to put them up for an election, with a chance to make an election speech. That way, we'd have a mixture of NPCs and PCs in control of the government which seems, to me, to be the best idea.

I don't want to be called a "whiner", as I do no believe this is what I'm doing. I just wish to put my point across. I don't want to offend any of the DMs, especially the ones involved in last night's event.

I am taking the wait and see option. I am sure this will work out and EFU will continue to be the home of awesome.

[RIPnogarD]

Why aren't you joining them? What's wrong with the factions?

Apart from the fantastic reception the risen sun guys got when they first started (and possibly the archeological society currently), factions have been pretty slow to fill from what I can see.

Why?

People were practically clammouring to apply for most factions in Sanctuary, but EfUA factions have not been so popular.

So what's the deal?

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"]My not-so-humbale opinion, with regards to the OP[/COLOR]...
Where were some of these forum members (posting in this thread) when I was being spanked for what they're saying and where are all the people that spanked me for it?

[Sternhund]

This thread got way out of hand. I'm closing it.

Concluding statement: Factions have worked well in EFU, and will continue to work in EFUA. Of course, we are completely open to constructive criticisms (as in, tell us how, not what) on improving the way we run our factions, and our faction system, but I feel like this thread has derailed into some sort of giant misconstrued mess.


Some constructive ideas of mine:
* Keep us aware of what your PCs are doing. Talk to the DMs on IRC, or make up a post that a DM can paste on our DM plot forum. That way, we're communicating with one another, and if a DM takes interest you can earn support in the toolset and through NPCs.
* If you'd like to submit a constructive suggestion, PM it to a DM to post on the DM forums, e-mail it to us, or post it on the suggestions forum.
* If you have a problem with a DM, try talking to them reasonably about it. DMs and players are human, so we will make mistakes, and miscommunicate. The way to solve these problems is to talk to one another, not hold a silent grudge.