Improve loot scaling for large parties.

[DollarPhil]

SOme qeusts, such as Purple Mines scale very, very poorly to larger parties, as the mob population and challenge increases drastically, but the loot does not, leading to barely enough to go round a large group. Also, with large numbers of mobs, the placeables are considerably less useful, as combats last longer. Oozes is another example of poor scaling to party size as its ranged mobs have some excellent vantage points, abilities and firepower that can, on larger spawn numbers, drop a PC in a couple of rounds. The disadvantage of this is it promotes 3 man elite smash teams over larger, more inclusive and interesting groups. 8 PCs attempting a quest, in general, tends to be exciting but unrewarding, with a few exceptions. Also, larger teams tend to be less organised and often present more risk.

Supposedly the endloot scales to party size now but I've never noticed this, and profit more on small teams. A major contributor to this is the fact that on many quests the monster drops are poor, with almost all loot found in chests, so the payout is similar whether 2 or 8 people show up. On the other hand, examples of good quest scaling are Wild Orcs, Coral Cove and the Cabal quest, which all have mobs that drop guaranteed items.

I suggest that a simple way of making large parties more favourable than elite smashteams on several quests would be to place more guaranteed or very common drops of potions and gold on monsters rather than in boxes. The result of this would be that the reward scales linearly with the challenge, except for the endchests. This would allow both small and large quest teams to have their places. It would not increase overall PC wealth, but rather mean that a large team would be rewarded nearly as well as a minimal one.

[Drakill Tannan]

Make most monsters drop a good ammount of gold

[Ordeal]

This quest scales very, very poorly to larger parties,

Sorry, which one?

I would be concerned if creatures started dropping more gold. There are already people out there who can make large amounts of gold very quickly, and adding to the ease of that could be dangerous. But you are very correct that certain quests in particular are lacking in reward.

In my opinion, however, certain quests are that way by design. Not every scripted quest is scripted by the same DM, and so there is a disparity in the risk-reward factor based on that. But also, some quests simply are not risky if you follow certain protocols, and so the reward similarly is lower.

Specifically I am thinking of the Harpies quest, which I have seen completed in about 3-4 minutes with no member of the party dipping below Wounded even once. In fact, in that quest I would say the opposite is true, and the usefulness of certain quest rewards is vastly greater than the risk posed to a prepared party.

It would take a great deal of effort to document and measure every quest, its risk, reward, and an appropriate balance between the two, and I cannot think of any DM who would enjoy doing that. However, it might be worth doing regardless. My suggestion then, on top of the current one, is to create a subforum of Suggestions specifically regarding quest balancing. It would be a private forum (only the poster of a thread and DMs could read or reply, similar to the Character Notes subforum) so that potential spoilers could be discussed candidly. The ultimate goal would be to see how many players feel the same way about specific quests, and if there is enough consensus then adjustments could be made on a case-by-case basis.

[putrid_plum]

I don't get why every quest needs to be balanced to max loot and easyness.  Also, I think loot drops are random so one time you may get tons of stuff and other times not much at all.

[Craig210]

I agree with this, As ive found the only profitable way to do a quest is with the minimal amount of people.

[DollarPhil]

@Ordeal.
Whoops, I changed the title name. I meant Purple Mines. This is not about general levels of risk/reward. It's about the fact that a number of quests (maybe just those 2, off the top of my head) get harder and less rewarding with more people in the team, which is both bizarre, and a disincentive to involve other players. It is however a relatively simple thing to fix on a general basis by assigning more loot drops to mobs and less to placeables.

I don't get why every quest needs to be balanced to max loot and easyness.  Also, I think loot drops are random so one time you may get tons of stuff and other times not much at all.

I never said increasing the general amount. I suggested shifting the distribution of loot, so that it is more dependent on party size. This would result in less loot for minimal teams, and more for larger parties The overall amount per PC would not go up noticeably. I've done Purple Mines a lot of times, like everyone, and frankly with 2 good PCs it *is* "max loot and easyness" as you can take your time and it's low pressure. With a full party, on the other hand, it's a gruelling waste of resources, because the rewards don't stretch far enough to compensate for the increased spawns.

[Drat]

Your citation with purple mines is incorrect, I have personally 2 manned that quest atleast 10 times, the number of spawns is completely random. I once had about two dozen archers spawn across the gap, and it was just two of us. The melee enemies are sporatic aswell, and the enemies at the entrance change aswell. I have found there to be no connection between party size on said quest. But I will say that getting 5-10 purple crystals each is very rewarding. Though the risk is quite high with a 2 party run. I think the quest should be changed to require atleast 4 participants to promote more teamwork and less... Hording and monopolization of purple crystals.

[Barehander]

When I play, there are often 3-10 people online. Let's not make it require four participants. :S It's hard enough for us working Euros to play as is.

I can't say I have much data on specific quests, but it is true that a three-man party is ideal for most quests. That's mostly because it's more efficent and organized than a larger one, though.

[Divine Intervention]

Every time I do purple crystals two man I seem to recieve about the same amount of spawns and I've never thought it was "Random".  Maybe I don't pay enough attention but it does seem to be fairly poor in reward in a large group.