End laming of random area traps

[Underbard]

Actually Gnome, your OP clearly stated combat random events, but VP has a really great suggestion, if it is possible.
  As far as non combat events go, well, if there is nothing guarding the chests, there probably shouldn't be too much there in the first place.

[Gnome on the Strange]

I mentioned them yes, but to compare the fact that they have "Don't do them without fighting" instructions whereas noncombat ones don't have "Don't do this without disabling stuff properly" restrictions.

I haven't noticed laming of the combat ones, only the noncombat ones. In fact, you could deal with sneak looting the combat ones by ensuring there's always a barrier you have to bash, or a boss key, or whatever.

[RIPnogarD]

I'm not sure if this is off topic or not but what's the difference between summoning a creature to die in a fight or summoning it to die to a trap? I've seen people (guilty myself) summon creatures as silly as rats to fight ogres. Druids putting the summoned creature into a no win fight situation should be just as punishable as summoning them to fall on a trap. Not to mention I thought summoned creatures didn't really die, that they were pseudo-real and simply went back to wherever they came from after they "died" or time expired in the summoned area.

[Box]

Not to mention I thought summoned creatures didn't really die, that they were pseudo-real and simply went back to wherever they came from after they "died" or time expired in the summoned area.

They don't die, but they do feel the pain and such that goes with being beaten half to death or melted by that 98 damage acid trap.

 As a druid, purposefully throwing creatures into harms way knowing it will 'die'  should/will get you spellfailure as soon as a DM sees it.

[Barehander]

I don't remember seeing that in any of the books I've read. It also goes against the basic logic of D&D and Summoning spells, which is to get you help in combat. Combat sort of implies somebody's going to get hurt. Intentional sadism is one thing, I suppose, but that depends on the kind of creature you summon. All in all, I think it's safe to assume that the creatures you summon aren't actually real beings whose welfare you have to consider; otherwise every summoner would be evil for forcing the creatures to fight for them.

According to d20SRD, this is true for Summoning spells:
"A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower. It is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can’t be summoned again."

There is no mention of pain, or the summoned creature getting angry about its fate on the next summoning.

So, that claim sounds rather arbitrary and dubious. It is almost certainly not the intention of the game designers. But this is off-topic, sorry about that!

[Relinquish]

What we are getting at is Gods that love little furry animals won't like you sending in little furry animals to trap spring, even though said animal doesn't die and yes, does go back to it's plane of existance or wherever it came from.

These Gods dislike this because:

*Poof*

*the pretty little celestial squirrel chitters at you, it's big bushy tail bobbing up and down as it looks at you with big brown eyes*

OK little cute thing, um...You want a nut? *you toss the nut onto a trap you have found, a Deadly Spike Trap in the middle of the forest path. The little creature licks it's lips and sniffs after the nut, and then pounces on it. It looks so happy and in love with the nut that you really feel for it as sharp jagged spikes of death and destruction rip into it's flesh, impaling it, causing it to squeel in pain and anguish as blood sprays into the air and portions of it's bowel strike you in the face.*

*It's mangled form though is not dead, and in the instant before death comes for it like a welcome release from it's suffering you caused it a tear rolls down it's furry cheek and it disappears back to it's home. Safe and whole perhaps, but emotionally scarred.*

*No longer will this furry forest friend ever, ever reach for another nut. The emotional scars run too deep. Never again will it trust a -insert PC race here, or any humanoid for that matter. Unfortunately, celestial nuts are all it can eat...so it dies a slow agonizing death from starvation.*

And Eldath cries for the next 1000 years because that particular one you happened to summon was His favorite. He used to hand feed it nuts daily, and now it's emaciated little form lies forever on his celestial window stoop.

Do you really want to make Eldath cry?


//and yes, I know it should have no recollection, but I used it to over-emphasize the fact that even though the animal is whole that you still -did- cause an animal creature to suffer. In fact, you tricked it into suffering, because it has a crappy Int score and really just responds. It's that aspect that rubs those Gods the wrong way.

[ScottyB]

There was this AD&D summoning spell that would summon something like a dozen miniature animals, and they'd file around the dungeon floors covering as many paths as possible, with the express purpose of tripping traps. It was one of my friends' favorite spells.

Then again, he also used domination to convince NPC apprentices to cast Permanency spells - this was back when the spell would permanently reduce CON as one of the costs.

[Barehander]

I guess my point is: it's not always quite so straightforward. You can't categorically state, "Druids will fall if they use summons to trigger traps." That's completely different from saying "A Druid of Lurue will fall if he tricks a unicorn into a lake of acid to use it as a stepping stone." The latter is a no-brainer, the former not so much.

[Ideal_Misconception]

(Stuff)

Short addition to that. The PnP summon spells pull celestial/infernal creatures from their planes. Said templates bump their INT score up to 3, the minimum for player race intelligence (normal animals have 1-2, and mostly function off of WIS). So by running it over traps, you'd kill an aligned animal of humanlike intelligence, and chances are it knows exactly what you did to it, but probably can't understand the complexities of why. I'm not sure how much the summons in NwN altered that, but if EFU is set in the same lore, it should, RP-wise, function the same way, which makes for some fun.