Use Magic Device

[Nightshadow]

There are some peices of equipment out there that are only usable by members of certain classes or worshippers of certain deities, even if you are mechanically able to use it, there is a note in the description stating that you can't use it unless you're something like a pure-class ranger or druid, or that you can't use it with UMD...

I propose that those who are pure classed Rogue or Bard, or have Skill Focus (Use Magic Device) are allowed to use these items.

Thoughts?

[Box]

No, because some of them are marked like that for a very good reason.

I've seen items only followers of certain deities could use or stuff that no non wizard could use without a great deal of knowledge in magic.

UMD is essentially 'faking it', and in a lot of cases faking it just won't do.

As an alternate suggestion I would suggest adding the 'added cost' property to these items, which would actually make it impossible to UMD them and no warning in the description would really be needed since it wouldn't be possible to equip without the requirements anyways.

[VanillaPudding]

After just playing a rogue that had a lot of UMD I'd have to say I agree with the system being looked at. Outside of using wands UMD was mostly useless due to the fact that a vast majority of other class items seemed to hold values way higher than they should or had modifiers placed on them to limit UMD usage.

The lasting effect of this pretty much limited UMD to wands only (the DC to use scrolls is pretty extreme) I believe at one point I was able to reach 20 UMD with some items and still unable to use the most mundane of items limited to rangers or druids, while some others could be used with 5 and had very similar properties.

[Box]

On that note VP, the main point of UMD is to use wands and such, hence the skill being called use magic 'device' not  'wear magic suit'. ,  A lot of stuff would just be crazy if people could UMD to wear it.

Scrolls are a lot tougher to use than wands and I can see merit in dropping the DC to 20+ spell level instead of 25+ spell level. UMD boosting loot is hard to come by and without skill focus most rogues will have like a 15-20% chance to use even a level 2 scroll even at like level 7.

[Nightshadow]

yeah... the DC should be 20+spell level for wands/scrolls, maybe even 15+spell level, though that's possibly too low.

Perhaps an additional requirement could be added to these non-UMD items, like a druidic mantle which is druid only. An additional note could be added saying "Druid only, do not use otherwise unless you have a UMD skill of at least +15"

or something like that...

[Cerberus]

I can kind of understand the size issues of item's marked for gnomes/halfling/goblin as it might be hard to get them to fit on a larger humanoid. ~But~ UMD is "supposed" to be a person's ability to be able to activate an item or read its script/ruins. I never understod the class only restrictions based on the fact that those that have the option to use the UMD skill are suppose to be able to imilate that (other) class enough to be able to gain the benifits of the divice in question. Saying a PC that has a high UMD can't use a class item is like saying he can't pick that lock or sing that particular song. UMD is a restricted skill for a reason, because the classes that get it are suppose to be able to do that kind of thing.
 
Of course I don't agree with D&D's normal weapons and armor being restricted (red, can't even try) either. I've always felt weapons and armor use should be penalized with serious negatives that make the classes NOT want to use them but be able to if they really wanted to. So what do I know :???:...

[Nightshadow]

Yes, I do prefer the way things are handled in PnP, where you get a negative level for wearing certain things, such as a good aligned character using an evil artifact, or some things just don't work as well for you, such as a non-paladin weilding a holy avenger, but this is probably too difficult to script.

[Disco]

UMD has got to be one of the most powerfull skills outthere. It does not need to be any better.

[Cerberus]

Just because I can sing doesn't mean I can read music or play any instrument in the world. Just because I can play a piano doesnt mean I can play the drums. Just because I can calm a stalking wolf or tiger doesnt mean I can stop a charging rhino. Just because I have a spell in my spell book doesn't mean I have the components to cast that spell... Yet, hmm... If the skill or ability is there acording to the game I can stop a charging Rhino with AE! How cool is that!
 
Explain to me again why snakes can't be charmed with AE? (ever hear of snake charmers)
 
UMD is a class skill that is being restricted for unjustifiable reasons as far as I'm concerned. But as long as we're all playing by the same rules it really doesnt matter what restrictions are placed on which skills. It's a game, it's suppose to be fun, not a pain in the butt for players or DMs.

[Equinox]

UMD is an amazing skill. It doesn't need changing.

[Egon the Monkey]

Stuff with really high UMD or OOC restrictions tends to fall into 2 categories:
1: It would be nonsensical or uber in the hands of a UMDer (e.g. magic bard pipes you need both magic and musical skill to play and get the effect from)
2: It's a powerful religious totem designed only for members of the faith and if you wear it with UMD, SMITING is iminent, from your god or the item's :P.

I would though suggest that some of the stuff that says "do not use if you are not a pure " be looked at again and changed to "do not use unless at least half your levels are in " or something. That means that it's not there to be used my people with just 1 ranger level or whatever, but a multiclass focused more in the intended class can use it.

I'm all for lowering the DC on scrolls. 25+ spell level is so high that it's generally not worth it unless you have about 5 rounds to spam attempts. 20+ spell level would make it useful for buffs, if not so good that it makes offensive spells easily useable. It wouldn't be reliable like wands, but it'd mean the scrolls would see use.

[SanTelmo]

I agree with VP, there are items which have similar effects and restrictions but others can be used easily while others cannot. And yes, I think scroll DC could be lowered to 20+spell level.

[dragonfire9000]

UMD is essentially 'faking it', and in a lot of cases faking it just won't do.

As any good rogue will tell you, faking it will always do.

I would be for lowering the scroll DC to +20. It seems only reasonable. However if DMs see balance issues...

I'm not certain what ought to be done for class-only items though. Certainly UMD is designed to uncomfortably fit into the shoes of others, but there are obviously limits as has been stated above.

[Talir]

We put those tags there for a reason, so I don't see this changing.

[Mort]

Yes... If the DM team already went to consensus that certain items cant be used with UMD, it wont happen.

UMD is good enough anyway.