Remove Brew Potion/Craft Wand

[Jayde Moon]

Increasing the price to brew with the right reagents lowering the brewing cost is a nice idea, indeed.

[The Boom King]

I think it'd be nice to make the cost of making these go down with a higher crafting skill.

That'd make things more flexible and interesting.

Secondly, if for some reason I -wanted- to play a merchant, I wouldn't want to apply to use the feats anyway.

I think it'll be fine the way it is. These merchants cannot make anything truly good without leveling up, which can only happen through Good RP or Questing. Questing would require them to hire bodyguards, since any respectable group of adventurers probably would be smart enough not to bring a fat merchant along with them on their ventures. Hiring bodyguards is a good way to start PC interaction, as normally this would lead to creating a merchant guild, which leads to the guild being able to fund different organizations, shady and lawful alike..

[Velve]

I dislike the idea.

Mostly that of people having to 'prove' themselves before they can craft potions and wands, not everyone can muster the sort of attention other players can, and would simply be ignored despite how hard they work their arses off to try and make it all engaging and an RP fiasco. Players have limits, and shouldn't be punished for not being able to overstep them.

Leave as is, its not flawless, but I can't see any way of having it improved all round.

[Egon the Monkey]

Boom King has it. I've been playing Ahmed, a successful brewer, for months, and the XP drain is noticeable. If you're playing a crafter PC, you'll likely cut off the business for a few days whenever you're close to a level so you don't constantly sit under the theshold for it due to orders. Unlike a goods merchant, you need to quest or rock out for DM XP, as both spellslots availabe and the capacity of a cauldron are limited by PC level.

Furthermore, crafting is an excellent way to influence things, as precisely *because* of the crappy prices on NPC brewers, PCs have a hold on the market. All my crafter PCs have offered discounts or even at-cost potions to PCs and factions they've wanted to (overtly or covertly) support.

Druidic/ranger brewers can really be a boon to people who maintain a good relationship with wilds factions, as they're the only real way to get One With The Land and Hide Potions. This is good.

As for making the cauldron a placeable, having a brewer in the faction is a great advantage from the word go, both in gold made, and in cheap potions for members. You'd never be able to supply low-cost heals to members to help them get going if you couldn't brew multiple potions.

Ahmed's whole sales business originally started by him renting out a Kingsman room JUST to have somewhere to store his annoyingly heavy cauldron. I then started sticking heavy and valuable stuff in the chest and it ballooned. The cauldrons are fine, they're sufficient hindrance, especially for a mage.

If someone is just logging a PC to sell potions, that's no different from a goods merchant only logging to buy and sell. And when you have a player attracting a good number of people to one place at one time for business, you tend to get RP going along with that between customers.

As TNVW says, requiring reagents would lead to the plants being wiped out in a matter of days. I remember when the herb system update went in, and half the bonga ferns, pine trees etc vanished in a puff of "oooh new recipes". Since you'd make a huge market for the plant parts, and they plants don't grow nearly quick enough to fill the usual potion demand (I should know, I went through a stage of getting a druid to fetch me reagents for bottles). However, with that aforementioned bottle recipe, there already exists a way for knowledgeable PCs to knock 5 gold off their costs.

I'd say to most of these people, try a crafter PC. It can be a bit of a double-edged sword though when you want to go quest and suddenly get an order. However, you can use it lots of ways, for example Egon used to knock up Cure wands mid quest if supplies got low (yay for sorcerous casting on bards).

I would say though, that for when there aren't sufficient crafter PCs about, we could use NPCs with overpriced but affordable potions. Say, 2nd level spells at 100, 3rd at 220, 1st at 45. Like the healer and Hagatha sell, but a wider range to include blur and others. Then PC crafters are the venue of choice, but a lack of them doesn't lock off supplies.

[Pup]

I'd be for a tweek in the potion department, but I think the wand-use restrictions are sufficient as is.

[ScottyB]

I don't have an opinion on wand crafting, but in regards to potions:

[hide="Complicated, interesting, but lots-of-work idea"]I like the idea of increasing the default prices, but making certain reagents available that can reduce either the gold cost or the XP cost (but not both). Perhaps difficult-to-harvest reagents (only grow in areas occupied by dangerous monsters) can have 100% XP cost reduction.

If there's a way to differentiate between hostile spells and friendly spells then perhaps Craft Weapon and Craft Armor could be put to use; each rank (unmodified by INT) could knock off a percentage of the XP cost for crafting of an offensive spell (Craft Weapon) or defensive spell (Craft Armor). This shouldn't stack with reagents, and the larger discount should be applied. A gold discount shouldn't be able to be applied alongside an XP discount.[/hide]
However, those would be some pretty heavy changes to a system that's been in place essentially since The Beginning - and a lot of work. Edit: And in the course of writing what's in the sblock I forgot that I don't like complex subsystems or crafting...

An easier adjustment might be for cauldrons to become more expensive luxury items, and maybe an increase in the price of potion bottles (which would make finding an empty potion bottle actually valuable loot).

[TheWastesAreFrozen]

Increasing the cost of a potion bottle only hurts the people that need them, not the people that supply them.

[TheImpossibleDream]

Increasing the cost of a potion bottle only hurts the people that need them, not the people that supply them.

Yes. But there really is no way to "hurt the people who supply them" without just removing the system entirely!

[Broken Crockery]

I sort of like hunting down wand/potion merchants to get supplies. It is a skill of inventory and consumable management that I am fairly good at!

[Dr Dragon]

I personally tire of seeing potion/wand merchants being hounded after

As well as clerics who do more wand or potion making then actual preaching. I think making potions and wands scarce would be uber.



-DRD

[Cruzel]

If there's a way to differentiate between hostile spells and friendly spells then perhaps Craft Weapon and Craft Armor could be put to use; each rank (unmodified by INT) could knock off a percentage of the XP cost for crafting of an offensive spell (Craft Weapon) or defensive spell (Craft Armor). This shouldn't stack with reagents, and the larger discount should be applied. A gold discount shouldn't be able to be applied alongside an XP discount.

It's right in the spells.2da, easy as pie to differentiate :)



Personally, I think both sides make good points. But I think that an alternate system should be explored. I think  that either spell components or something else cose to it should be required for anything but the most basic spells, or most spells should be able to be made into potions through herbalism and alchemy. What these potion PCs need is competition, something to give them a reason to RP their skills rather than just *poof* "Here you go sirrah".


I am liking the idea of using the craft armor/weapon skills as skills for potions/wands , and the PC should have the choice to make a permanent one time choice if they want their skills to reduce a percentage of gold or XP cost.  I think also taking it one step fruther would be a good idea as well. These skills should have -requirements- before a potion of a certain level could be brewed.  5 points for cantrips, 15 for first level 25 for second and 35 for third. (Maybe spell focus in any school will reduce requirements of that school?)

This way not every PC and their dog can be an instantly successful potion/wand merchant, and the DMs could even throw the ability to craft potions of even higher spell levels to really dedicated crafters.