Monk staves(staffs?)

[Vlaid]

Is it mechanically feasible, or desirable, to allow some kind of Monk-specific staff that allows the use of flurry of blows and monk BAB (or possibly only one of these)? If you wanted to allow flurry of blows, you could add staves that have -2 attack bonus and Speed as a property as a work around if it's not possible to simply allow flurry of blows to affect them. I would really like to be able to see a staff be a viable option for monks.

[ScottyB]

Flurry of Blows and UBAB are hardcoded and cannot be expanded to include additional weapon types.

I'm sure our monk staff loots are good enough on their own, and a monk that seeks to become a perfect staff user, basing their martial philosophy on the staff, like its dual-ended nature or something, should be able to earn some sick kind of sick staff if they rocked out.

Staves and staffs are both acceptable plurals of staff.

[Egon the Monkey]

I'm sure our monk staff loots are good enough on their own

There's one monk staff. It has +Heal, Hide/Move Silent, and Tumble. There are also two unrestricted staves I know of with +1 dmg.

A L6 monk using a staff is hitting for a max of 1d6+(STR*1.5)+1 damage, doesn't get unarmed BAB, doesn't get Stunning Fist and doesn't get Flurry. The can of course swap the staff away to throw a Stunning Fist punch, and then return.
Assuming 16 STR, that's 6-11 dmg

A L6 monk with fists is hitting for 1-8+STR+1 or 2 Gloves bonus damage (dependent on Gloves), gets an extra attack, and can use Flurry and Stun.
Assuming 16 STR, that'll be 5-12 minimum, going up to 5-14 at 8.


You can't reach the same damage as an unarmed monk while using a 2H weapon, and that's not even counting the extra attack(s). And I'm being generous there by assuming a heavily STR built monk. ON a 14 STR one it gets worse.

IMO, let's see monk staffs with at least +2 or +1d4 bludgeoning and skill bonuses. That'll put them closer to monks using the Baghtru or Acid gauntlets.

The ONLY advantage of a staff is you can slap Keen Edge on it.

[TheImpossibleDream]

I started off with a weapon thats sub par compared to the other weapons available to me. As a result I ended up with a weapon thats far better than even the best "standard" weapon available. Make a rawking character that uses a stave and you'll get a rawking stave.

Your logic is flawed in that you think everybody should have access to a great stave! I don't think so, rock out with a gimped weapon and be rewarded, otherwise it's hardly rocking out!

[Egon the Monkey]

Actually, my logic is that in PnP, monks get their Monk BAB and Flurry with all monk weapons, even Shuriken. Here, they don't and everybody can get access to great gloves, so monks never use Clubs, Staves or Kamas. They are not just sub-par for damage, they cost you your abilities when using them. It'd be like Dakarai losing his Barb Rage when using a spear, as well as the lower dmg compared to a greataxe. In fact, NC was requesting suggestions for better Kamas so they might see use.

You can't rely on DM loot, and I've had plenty of good, active PCs who just weren't around when something capable of earning them it went down. There are lots of good Daggers and Halberds around, weapons that are less powerful than others on standard ones, but have good drops to promote their use. If you choose a cool weapon and succeed with it, you shouldn't need a DM to assign you a cool item, just to find one on one of the tougher quests.

[TheImpossibleDream]

Kama's DO work with flurry of blows. Quarterstaves do not. Also I'll point out that you can dual wield kama's and get four attacks at level 1.

And I disagree with loot just dropping from quests, no matter how hard a quest is, any powerbuild can crush a quest over and over until something drops.

It's better to have the decent variants of the gimpy weapons be given out by DM's. As then you don't have to worry about a weapon being "overpowered" because only one person has said weapon.

Kama's are exotic weapons so should naturally be exotic and are fine the way they are considering they can be dual wielded with flurry of blows.

Also you cannot, even in pnp, as far as I know, use ANY fist abilities unless you are unarmed.

You still retain all the other abilities, including but not limited to, improved knockdown, evasion, wisdom bonus to ac. While wielding a stave.

[Portal Rat]

The ONLY advantage of a staff is you can slap Keen Edge on it.

Disarm.

[Egon the Monkey]

True. But:
While unarmed, a disarm attempt will count any weapon as equal size. Therefore, the attack modifier is -6 whether the weapon being disarmed is a (tiny) dagger or a (large) greatsword.
And, monks rarely have points spare for 13 INT for disarm.

[Drakill Tannan]

Could the damage of a staff be incresed when wielded by a monk if he has a certian level?

+1 At level 5
+1d4 at level 6 & 7
+1d6 at levels 8+
+1 AB at level 10

[N/A]

And, monks rarely have points spare for 13 INT for disarm.

Skill points are actually very useful for a monk. So you'd be better off with a higher int anyways.

[Vlaid]

I think this topic has gone off point.

I'm not talking about making amazing staves for super awesomely played monks using a quarterstaff, though I'm sure that would happen anyway.

The only reason I see there a need for better Required: Monk staves, is because staves fit monks so nicely from an RP perspective. I just haven't seen but maybe one decent monk staff, incidentally called "Monk's Staff" and I can't imagine a monk even wanting to use it except to walk around with it out for RP.

That's why I suggested making Monk only staves with -2 attack and Speed property to duplicate the flurry effect. They could also be noted with that //do not use unless you have no levels except monk, and do not UMD tag on them, like some of the Ranger loot in the underdark had on them.

[ScottyB]

By "Speed" I assume you mean "Haste" since that's the only item property that can increase movement rate and attacks per round. Haste also increases AC, of course.

In any case, I'm sure someone will chime in that such a weapon would be overpowered as loot-table loot and that monks are fine as-is, even using staves.

[Vlaid]

I'm pretty sure there is a weapon property called "Speed" that only gives the weapon an extra attack per round (no movement or AC increase). At least there is in 3.0 and on. Not really that important I guess. Was just a passing idea.

[Underbard]

I agree with Vlaid on this.  It would have to be a truly remarkable staff for anyone to complain that a monk is overpowered.

[Howlando]

No perma-haste monk staves, thanks. And no there is no "speed" property in NWN that does anything other than haste.